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Question Starter clutch and any tricks to rotating engine

Question Starter clutch and any tricks to rotating engine

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Fat Dan
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Starter clutch and any tricks to rotating engine without starting pony
I've got a 12A-08263 Traxcavator track loader with a D315 with a supposedly seized engine. I want to turn the engine over by hand to see if it actually is seized and/or where the slop is. The 12A has a front Hyd. pump and limited access to parts I normally use to rotate engines. I have considered using the pony by engaging the clutch and turn over the pony by hand. Which leads me to the second question ... how do you unlatch the pinion clutch without the diesel engine kicking it out? Pony in sad shape the oil has been gas washed by bad starting practices. Pony may start but it is not long for this world.
Suggestions anyone??
Thanks for looking.
[attachment=59295]D315 Traxcavator.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=59296]front pump.jpg[/attachment]
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Thu, Jun 18, 2020 5:13 AM
ccjersey
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You can open up a small cover on the clutch housing over the pinion and bump one of the latches to disengage the pinion from the flywheel ring gear.

Of course what is a simple procedure on a regular tractor is frequently difficult on a track loader. The cover is put there to allow pinion spring tension/unlatching rpm to be adjusted without removing the pinion assembly every time.

The pinion clutch is disengaged by simply moving the lever to the rear from the full forward engaged position. But I’m thinking you really mean how do you disengage the pinion gear, not the clutch.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare timeπŸ˜„
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Thu, Jun 18, 2020 6:29 AM
Fat Dan
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Reply to ccjersey:
You can open up a small cover on the clutch housing over the pinion and bump one of the latches to disengage the pinion from the flywheel ring gear.

Of course what is a simple procedure on a regular tractor is frequently difficult on a track loader. The cover is put there to allow pinion spring tension/unlatching rpm to be adjusted without removing the pinion assembly every time.

The pinion clutch is disengaged by simply moving the lever to the rear from the full forward engaged position. But I’m thinking you really mean how do you disengage the pinion gear, not the clutch.
[quote="ccjersey"]You can open up a small cover on the clutch housing over the pinion and bump one of the latches to disengage the pinion from the flywheel ring gear.

Of course what is a simple procedure on a regular tractor is frequently difficult on a track loader. The cover is put there to allow pinion spring tension/unlatching rpm to be adjusted without removing the pinion assembly every time.

The pinion clutch is disengaged by simply moving the lever to the rear from the full forward engaged position. But I’m thinking you really mean how do you disengage the pinion gear, not the clutch.[/quote]

Yes sorry. I have one a 12A-3563 The spring Tensioner was way out of adjustment Allowing the clutches to slip and the latches were locked and I could not figure out how to unlatch Without loosing a finger. But it needed to be removed anyway. After removing I found the latch work well, the clutches may need replaced but everything else looks ok till I go a little deeper into the clutch.

So the little two bolted plate pulls off and it MIGHT be possible to trip the latches.
Thanks
I looked in the wet clutch access on 3563 And I could not see enough to trip the latches and keep my all of my fingers.

Thank you so much.
Any suggestions on turning it over by hand πŸ–. Another option will be pull the yoke on the hyd. pumpAnd use the front of the crank.
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Thu, Jun 18, 2020 7:07 AM
gemdozer
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Reply to Fat Dan:
[quote="ccjersey"]You can open up a small cover on the clutch housing over the pinion and bump one of the latches to disengage the pinion from the flywheel ring gear.

Of course what is a simple procedure on a regular tractor is frequently difficult on a track loader. The cover is put there to allow pinion spring tension/unlatching rpm to be adjusted without removing the pinion assembly every time.

The pinion clutch is disengaged by simply moving the lever to the rear from the full forward engaged position. But I’m thinking you really mean how do you disengage the pinion gear, not the clutch.[/quote]

Yes sorry. I have one a 12A-3563 The spring Tensioner was way out of adjustment Allowing the clutches to slip and the latches were locked and I could not figure out how to unlatch Without loosing a finger. But it needed to be removed anyway. After removing I found the latch work well, the clutches may need replaced but everything else looks ok till I go a little deeper into the clutch.

So the little two bolted plate pulls off and it MIGHT be possible to trip the latches.
Thanks
I looked in the wet clutch access on 3563 And I could not see enough to trip the latches and keep my all of my fingers.

Thank you so much.
Any suggestions on turning it over by hand πŸ–. Another option will be pull the yoke on the hyd. pumpAnd use the front of the crank.
You could angaged the master cluch and desangaged the transmission and with a long wrench maybe you could turning the motor by the coupling if he is't freese and the pinion could going out
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Thu, Jun 18, 2020 7:33 AM
neil
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Reply to gemdozer:
You could angaged the master cluch and desangaged the transmission and with a long wrench maybe you could turning the motor by the coupling if he is't freese and the pinion could going out
Put your phone in the hole so you can see where the latches are, then use a drift or similar to tap them loose. You could use your hand, they're not that violent but probably easier to use an implement
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Thu, Jun 18, 2020 8:40 AM
Fat Dan
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Reply to neil:
Put your phone in the hole so you can see where the latches are, then use a drift or similar to tap them loose. You could use your hand, they're not that violent but probably easier to use an implement
Thanks 😊 everyone for your help. I got to go kick my Kitty some more while I still have the upper hand. Like my kids someday it will be able to take me in a fair fight. :tea:


Dag-nab-it my Decompression lever is MIA at the moment. Have to find which Way To turn on the decomposition shaft. Poooo buckets.

[attachment=59297]79E7C2A6-748D-46D6-9191-7E4602A89BD2.jpeg[/attachment]
Righty runny and lefty starty
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Thu, Jun 18, 2020 9:20 AM
monserandsons
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Reply to Fat Dan:
Thanks 😊 everyone for your help. I got to go kick my Kitty some more while I still have the upper hand. Like my kids someday it will be able to take me in a fair fight. :tea:


Dag-nab-it my Decompression lever is MIA at the moment. Have to find which Way To turn on the decomposition shaft. Poooo buckets.

[attachment=59297]79E7C2A6-748D-46D6-9191-7E4602A89BD2.jpeg[/attachment]
Righty runny and lefty starty
Attachment
Maybe my experience will be of help. The most recent D6 I got acted like the pinion was engaged, however the half moon key had stripped and someone welded from freeze plug hole. After many hours with a die grinder and all the right used parts I was able to reassemble without tearing the whole tractor apart. Not sure about difficulty level on a loader. Good luck
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Fri, Jun 19, 2020 6:21 AM
Fat Dan
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Reply to monserandsons:
Maybe my experience will be of help. The most recent D6 I got acted like the pinion was engaged, however the half moon key had stripped and someone welded from freeze plug hole. After many hours with a die grinder and all the right used parts I was able to reassemble without tearing the whole tractor apart. Not sure about difficulty level on a loader. Good luck


Thanks ... Mine wasn't that bad but I did have to pull the governor and old diesel poured out on my arm and I got a nasty comical burn. Hint: pull bottom bolt on governor first ... not sure if diesel is supposed to be inside the governor on the D315.
The series D315 Cat engine has flyweights in the governor making it fatter where the earlier D3400 and the D4400 has a thinner governor allowing access to remove the pinion clutch without removing the governor; also the D318, is a longer block because it is a six cylinder and has more room to pull pinion clutch easier.

An old-timer mechanic friend stopped by and he made sure to say he hated to work on the old 955 Traxcavator as he pointed to the bucket control arms and the large unboltable iron A frame over the engine. He laughed like hell and asked "Why Traxcavators" ??? πŸ˜‰:eyebrows: he added he has a D4 crank out of a D315 that had the oil pressure flicker one cold morning and he too went back into get his coffee and ... bad main. (What is it with coffee and the D315 engine?) He added one more thing about these old things "you HAVE to use 10W in the winter or they wont run!"
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Fri, Jun 19, 2020 1:10 PM
gemdozer
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Reply to Fat Dan:


Thanks ... Mine wasn't that bad but I did have to pull the governor and old diesel poured out on my arm and I got a nasty comical burn. Hint: pull bottom bolt on governor first ... not sure if diesel is supposed to be inside the governor on the D315.
The series D315 Cat engine has flyweights in the governor making it fatter where the earlier D3400 and the D4400 has a thinner governor allowing access to remove the pinion clutch without removing the governor; also the D318, is a longer block because it is a six cylinder and has more room to pull pinion clutch easier.

An old-timer mechanic friend stopped by and he made sure to say he hated to work on the old 955 Traxcavator as he pointed to the bucket control arms and the large unboltable iron A frame over the engine. He laughed like hell and asked "Why Traxcavators" ??? πŸ˜‰:eyebrows: he added he has a D4 crank out of a D315 that had the oil pressure flicker one cold morning and he too went back into get his coffee and ... bad main. (What is it with coffee and the D315 engine?) He added one more thing about these old things "you HAVE to use 10W in the winter or they wont run!"
No diesel in governor and you need to removed just the back cover and back cover from the cluch housing and removed the 2 screws from inspection cover rear the cluch housing from the big motor but you need to lift the starting engine 2 to 3 inchs for clear the bottom gear and dont forget to draining coolant from motor and the pinion have to be angaged and lubrifi the oring on cluch housing to the joint it will help for pulling the cluch housing
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Fri, Jun 19, 2020 4:21 PM
Fat Dan
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Reply to gemdozer:
No diesel in governor and you need to removed just the back cover and back cover from the cluch housing and removed the 2 screws from inspection cover rear the cluch housing from the big motor but you need to lift the starting engine 2 to 3 inchs for clear the bottom gear and dont forget to draining coolant from motor and the pinion have to be angaged and lubrifi the oring on cluch housing to the joint it will help for pulling the cluch housing

Thanks Hector,
Diesel in the governor I thought was odd so it most likely needs a new seal.
I tried that three or four times and could not for the life of me get the starting clutch past the governor. I needed another 1/2 inch to clear the governor, maybe I wasn't holding the wrench correctly.
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Sat, Jun 20, 2020 1:21 AM
gemdozer
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Reply to Fat Dan:

Thanks Hector,
Diesel in the governor I thought was odd so it most likely needs a new seal.
I tried that three or four times and could not for the life of me get the starting clutch past the governor. I needed another 1/2 inch to clear the governor, maybe I wasn't holding the wrench correctly.
I have the servicemen's reference book for d315,d4,955 traxcavator and in page 275 they give indication lift the starting engine 2to3 inchs thick this will permit the starter pinion to pass by the idler gear,removed the cover from governor
,engage the cluch pinion this will mesh the teeth on the pinion with the teeth on flywheel gear and make removal of the cluch and pinion possible and dont forget to remove the 2 or 3 bolts from rear inspection cover for twist the cluch housing comming out ,if you could get themanual it should help you and my manual is bad with finger praint and corner eat by mouse in shop.
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Sat, Jun 20, 2020 4:49 AM
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