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D46U clutch stuck disengaged???

D46U clutch stuck disengaged???

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bursitis
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had an interesting thing happen yesterday while i was winching an old tractor out of the way. my clutch lever got stuck in the disengaged position with the winch in gear and the transmission in neutral engine running. i was able to slide the winch into neutral after i shut the engine off. when i removed the top cover i couldn't find any problems. i wiggled and juggled everything and it started to work again and worked fine the rest of the day. any ideas what happened???

D46U straight blade,D46U cat angle blade,allis chalmers AD4 grader and Khoering 404 dragline. D4C 40A,D4 2T and scraper.

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Sat, Apr 13, 2019 8:13 PM
ccjersey
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Clutch stuck with lever forward toward engine or back toward seat?

Just reading that you shut off engine to shift the winch out of gear makes me think your clutch was stuck engaged/lever back toward seat.

How hard did you push on the lever to try to disengage the clutch? Did the lever move at all.....move a lot? How hard is it to pull clutch lever back and snap clutch in? Is there a lot of slack and lost motion in the clutch linkage?
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Sat, Apr 13, 2019 9:38 PM
bursitis
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Reply to ccjersey:
Clutch stuck with lever forward toward engine or back toward seat?

Just reading that you shut off engine to shift the winch out of gear makes me think your clutch was stuck engaged/lever back toward seat.

How hard did you push on the lever to try to disengage the clutch? Did the lever move at all.....move a lot? How hard is it to pull clutch lever back and snap clutch in? Is there a lot of slack and lost motion in the clutch linkage?
sorry. the lever was in forward position and the throw out was against the clutch brake. i shut the engine off so i could remove the top cover and examine thats when i shifted the winch out of gear. the lever felt like it was up against something hard and sharp and the throw out mechanism wouldn't move forward. almost like there was a sharp edge that the throw out was catching on.

D46U straight blade,D46U cat angle blade,allis chalmers AD4 grader and Khoering 404 dragline. D4C 40A,D4 2T and scraper.

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Sat, Apr 13, 2019 11:25 PM
ccjersey
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You need someone that has looked inside a D4. I have been in a lot of hand clutches but not a D4.

If i understand,,,,,,,,,,,,, you could not get clutch to disengage and stop the winch turning or shift transmission into gear even though the lever was against the front of the slot in the floor plate and when you looked inside the release/throwout bearing was full to the rear against the clutch brake.

Or ..................things were positioned as above and the lever was stuck (felt like it was hitting something hard?) and you could not pull it back and make the winch turn?

Not an oil clutch model I don't think?

Do you keep the oil cup for the clutch throwout/release bearing full? Does the cup have a standpipe in the center with a wick hanging out of it or is it just a funnel shaped cup that channels oil into a reservoir with a metering pad on top of the release bearing carrier down below. I think this is how the sliding surfaces get lubed

Has the clutch shaft pilot bearing in the flywheel been greased lately? If this is going out it may have locked and has unlocked temporarily.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Sun, Apr 14, 2019 2:00 AM
bursitis
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Reply to ccjersey:
You need someone that has looked inside a D4. I have been in a lot of hand clutches but not a D4.

If i understand,,,,,,,,,,,,, you could not get clutch to disengage and stop the winch turning or shift transmission into gear even though the lever was against the front of the slot in the floor plate and when you looked inside the release/throwout bearing was full to the rear against the clutch brake.

Or ..................things were positioned as above and the lever was stuck (felt like it was hitting something hard?) and you could not pull it back and make the winch turn?

Not an oil clutch model I don't think?

Do you keep the oil cup for the clutch throwout/release bearing full? Does the cup have a standpipe in the center with a wick hanging out of it or is it just a funnel shaped cup that channels oil into a reservoir with a metering pad on top of the release bearing carrier down below. I think this is how the sliding surfaces get lubed

Has the clutch shaft pilot bearing in the flywheel been greased lately? If this is going out it may have locked and has unlocked temporarily.
no the handle was forward and the transmission brake was touching. the winch was not turning and the tractor was just sitting idling. i could slip it into and out of every gear . i shut the engine off just so i could look inside safely. dry clutch and properly lubed and adjusted.

correct i could not pull the lever back. as far as i know the pilot bearing is ok. if the pilot was frozen wouldn't the transmission input shaft keep turning? the input shaft was free except for the drag from the transmission brake.

D46U straight blade,D46U cat angle blade,allis chalmers AD4 grader and Khoering 404 dragline. D4C 40A,D4 2T and scraper.

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Sun, Apr 14, 2019 2:33 AM
wimmera farmer
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Reply to bursitis:
no the handle was forward and the transmission brake was touching. the winch was not turning and the tractor was just sitting idling. i could slip it into and out of every gear . i shut the engine off just so i could look inside safely. dry clutch and properly lubed and adjusted.

correct i could not pull the lever back. as far as i know the pilot bearing is ok. if the pilot was frozen wouldn't the transmission input shaft keep turning? the input shaft was free except for the drag from the transmission brake.
Sounds like similar to my twenty.The little short links may be worn enough in the holes and pins to get one inside out and jam. Go back in there with clutch disengaged engine stopped and poke at the links a bit and see if one goes too far and jams in. Flick it out again and all works again. Not sure if a D4 works the same. Made new links for the twenty, pins were not worn. Is the clutch adjustment correct?
I think in the twenty all three would fall inwards and nothing looked wrong on first glance. cheers WF
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Sun, Apr 14, 2019 5:22 AM
bursitis
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Reply to wimmera farmer:
Sounds like similar to my twenty.The little short links may be worn enough in the holes and pins to get one inside out and jam. Go back in there with clutch disengaged engine stopped and poke at the links a bit and see if one goes too far and jams in. Flick it out again and all works again. Not sure if a D4 works the same. Made new links for the twenty, pins were not worn. Is the clutch adjustment correct?
I think in the twenty all three would fall inwards and nothing looked wrong on first glance. cheers WF
links and pins are good to go. puzzled

D46U straight blade,D46U cat angle blade,allis chalmers AD4 grader and Khoering 404 dragline. D4C 40A,D4 2T and scraper.

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Sun, Apr 14, 2019 5:50 AM
edb
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Reply to bursitis:
links and pins are good to go. puzzled
Hi Team,
sounds to be like what Wimmera Farmer described in that the over centre links moved the cams inwards to an inner over centre position when the clutch was fully disengaged, then the throw out sliding collar will not go back to the forward engaged position until the links can be coaxed back outwards again. The links/cams should always be posed outwards.

Scan shows correct relationship of the clutch cam lock system components.

Likely lost motion--wear-- in the links and/or wear to the throw out collar on its actuating flange which allows the sliding collar to move too far back and so the links drop inwards and the cams fall back over center, jamming the throw out sliding collar back in the disengage position further than was designed.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Sun, Apr 14, 2019 8:08 AM
kal
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Reply to edb:
Hi Team,
sounds to be like what Wimmera Farmer described in that the over centre links moved the cams inwards to an inner over centre position when the clutch was fully disengaged, then the throw out sliding collar will not go back to the forward engaged position until the links can be coaxed back outwards again. The links/cams should always be posed outwards.

Scan shows correct relationship of the clutch cam lock system components.

Likely lost motion--wear-- in the links and/or wear to the throw out collar on its actuating flange which allows the sliding collar to move too far back and so the links drop inwards and the cams fall back over center, jamming the throw out sliding collar back in the disengage position further than was designed.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachment
I have a D4 7u that did this or real close to the same thing. What I found was the coupling on the clutch output shaft to the transmission input shaft was not tight enough and let the clutch shaft move back and the disc would actually come out of the flywheel. There is a snap ring inside the coupler that is supposed to hold it in place. The bolts were loose enough that the snap popped out and let shaft move.
k
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Sun, Apr 14, 2019 8:01 PM
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