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D4 Hydraulic Hose Replacement

D4 Hydraulic Hose Replacement

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FlyingD4
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Hello all, I recently purchased what I believe to be a 1952 D4 dozer. Really enjoying the little thing so far. We have some light work we plan on using it for, and otherwise just enjoying it because it's fun and as a restoration.

The first issue I'm coming across is replacing the hydraulic hoses. They're an old Anchor assembled style, see photos. I've taken it to the local hydraulic hose shops (including the Cat dealer), and nobody wants to touch them.

From looking at these, I see no reason why I can't just unbolt the two outer halves, cut the hose off the inner portion, and then get new hose to put it all back together. Is it really this simple? Obviously it needs to be correct hydraulic hose of the right size.

The reason I ask is a friend of mine who's a farmer thought he remembered that the outer halves needed to get replaced when reassembling the hoses. Obviously don't want to put something together and have it spray hydraulic fluid all over me.

[attachment=50375]2018-08-22.jpg[/attachment]
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Thu, Aug 23, 2018 2:23 AM
ccjersey
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I reuse the clamps unless they are cracked or the ears are bent. You can purchase hydraulic hose online from several places. I have used Discount hydraulic hose
https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwk_TbBRDsARIsAALJSOaAuaU7rmYdp5nbtpIaTFbMZNTmFTGTtw0pbzYaaXVbydcqSFkyG4EaAp4REALw_wcB

Pump working pressure in those old systems was around 1000 psi. SAE 100R1AT 3/4" hose is rated to 1250 psi if your old hose has 1 wire reinforcing layer or SAE100R2AT is rated 3250 psi if it has 2 wire layers.

You want to use the hose that the clamps work best on and there is nothing wrong with extra pressure rating. Once you aren't lifting or lowering and the valve is closed your machine may put quite a bit more pressure on a hose as it moves than the pump could ever develop. However the burst strength of the hose is a lot higher than the working pressure rating so that should take care of most situations. The cylinders are typically large bore so that lessens the required pump working pressure AND the possible locked off pressures that a hose might ever see.

The various industries have all decided that the anchor style has to go away. I ran into this making hose for anhydrous ammonia 10 years ago. Supplier no longer sells bulk hose, only premade assemblies.

You are right to be concerned about bursting since the hoses are close to the operator. There is tremendous potential energy in the hoses but distance from the hose usually mitigates any potential for injury. I recently had an old hose on my wheel loader burst. It was run from the valve next to the operator station up to the boom and down to a log grapple. I had a bucket on and the old line was looped back to itself up front, had been for many years, so I am not sure why it burst but I grabbed the wrong lever and got a jet of oil in the eye. I wear glasses or i may have lost my sight. It did hurt but my vision was unaffected other than looking through a film of oil for an hour or so. I pulled into the shop and replaced the hose as well as disconnecting the lever to that valve. I gladly reused the anchor style clamps!
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Thu, Aug 23, 2018 2:58 AM
8C 361
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Reply to ccjersey:
I reuse the clamps unless they are cracked or the ears are bent. You can purchase hydraulic hose online from several places. I have used Discount hydraulic hose
https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwk_TbBRDsARIsAALJSOaAuaU7rmYdp5nbtpIaTFbMZNTmFTGTtw0pbzYaaXVbydcqSFkyG4EaAp4REALw_wcB

Pump working pressure in those old systems was around 1000 psi. SAE 100R1AT 3/4" hose is rated to 1250 psi if your old hose has 1 wire reinforcing layer or SAE100R2AT is rated 3250 psi if it has 2 wire layers.

You want to use the hose that the clamps work best on and there is nothing wrong with extra pressure rating. Once you aren't lifting or lowering and the valve is closed your machine may put quite a bit more pressure on a hose as it moves than the pump could ever develop. However the burst strength of the hose is a lot higher than the working pressure rating so that should take care of most situations. The cylinders are typically large bore so that lessens the required pump working pressure AND the possible locked off pressures that a hose might ever see.

The various industries have all decided that the anchor style has to go away. I ran into this making hose for anhydrous ammonia 10 years ago. Supplier no longer sells bulk hose, only premade assemblies.

You are right to be concerned about bursting since the hoses are close to the operator. There is tremendous potential energy in the hoses but distance from the hose usually mitigates any potential for injury. I recently had an old hose on my wheel loader burst. It was run from the valve next to the operator station up to the boom and down to a log grapple. I had a bucket on and the old line was looped back to itself up front, had been for many years, so I am not sure why it burst but I grabbed the wrong lever and got a jet of oil in the eye. I wear glasses or i may have lost my sight. It did hurt but my vision was unaffected other than looking through a film of oil for an hour or so. I pulled into the shop and replaced the hose as well as disconnecting the lever to that valve. I gladly reused the anchor style clamps!
You need to be sure the hose you use is the correct OD for the clamps. The 3/4" hose I used was too small, I had to wrap it with tape to get the clamps to work. I really have no fear of bursting, but no leaks several years later.
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Thu, Aug 23, 2018 8:46 PM
JackD6-5R
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Reply to 8C 361:
You need to be sure the hose you use is the correct OD for the clamps. The 3/4" hose I used was too small, I had to wrap it with tape to get the clamps to work. I really have no fear of bursting, but no leaks several years later.
I recently replaced a blown hose on my HT4 using the same type hose clamp.
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Thu, Aug 23, 2018 9:02 PM
FlyingD4
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Reply to JackD6-5R:
I recently replaced a blown hose on my HT4 using the same type hose clamp.
The hose size is an issue as well, yes. The shops I talked to said that they weren't convinced they could get the hose sizes correct.

It would drive up the cost a good bit, but part of me is thinking of going this route and updating the tractor:

https://www.inserta.com/PDF/AI-ADFLG-U61-2BOLT.pdf

It looks like to replace all 8 flanges with those would be about $300, then probably another $100 for the 4 hoses to get made up.

All my other equipment is newer and has the more standard threaded or quick disconnect setups. I like the old style, but if it's not feasible to get the correct hose for it, that's another matter.
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Thu, Aug 23, 2018 9:58 PM
STEPHEN
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Reply to FlyingD4:
The hose size is an issue as well, yes. The shops I talked to said that they weren't convinced they could get the hose sizes correct.

It would drive up the cost a good bit, but part of me is thinking of going this route and updating the tractor:

https://www.inserta.com/PDF/AI-ADFLG-U61-2BOLT.pdf

It looks like to replace all 8 flanges with those would be about $300, then probably another $100 for the 4 hoses to get made up.

All my other equipment is newer and has the more standard threaded or quick disconnect setups. I like the old style, but if it's not feasible to get the correct hose for it, that's another matter.
It's not that bad, I think you are overthinking this. I will look at the hoses I replaced many years ago now and report the specs. Never had any problem, thinking I got bulk hose from Cat.
Hose shops are lawyered up, they are dealing with modern parts. For liability they have to match hose with ends and/or crimp sleeves and die systems that are approved by the makers. If you have a high pressure system and want the assurance then go for it. On this old stuff it's not needed.
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Thu, Aug 23, 2018 11:34 PM
DWC7
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Reply to STEPHEN:
It's not that bad, I think you are overthinking this. I will look at the hoses I replaced many years ago now and report the specs. Never had any problem, thinking I got bulk hose from Cat.
Hose shops are lawyered up, they are dealing with modern parts. For liability they have to match hose with ends and/or crimp sleeves and die systems that are approved by the makers. If you have a high pressure system and want the assurance then go for it. On this old stuff it's not needed.
What we have done in the past is tig weld on spuds to the stem that goes down into the hose. From their we would just use JIC's on the hoses. Essentially making an adapter. Anchor use to make some of those 2 bolts but now days they are rare. If you can figure out if its a 1 or 2 wire hose that old should be SAE100R spec so the OD will be close enough to use any hose thats the same spec like said above.

SAE100R1 and 100R2 across the board no matter the manufacturer are all really close in OD. Its just that now everything is going to a constant pressure compact bend radius so the ODs are not the same and the hoses really dont have any SAE spec.

If you need some hose and want to use your old ends let me know i will be glad to help.
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Fri, Aug 24, 2018 1:06 AM
bursitis
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Reply to DWC7:
What we have done in the past is tig weld on spuds to the stem that goes down into the hose. From their we would just use JIC's on the hoses. Essentially making an adapter. Anchor use to make some of those 2 bolts but now days they are rare. If you can figure out if its a 1 or 2 wire hose that old should be SAE100R spec so the OD will be close enough to use any hose thats the same spec like said above.

SAE100R1 and 100R2 across the board no matter the manufacturer are all really close in OD. Its just that now everything is going to a constant pressure compact bend radius so the ODs are not the same and the hoses really dont have any SAE spec.

If you need some hose and want to use your old ends let me know i will be glad to help.
[quote="DWC7"]What we have done in the past is tig weld on spuds to the stem that goes down into the hose. From their we would just use JIC's on the hoses. Essentially making an adapter. Anchor use to make some of those 2 bolts but now days they are rare. If you can figure out if its a 1 or 2 wire hose that old should be SAE100R spec so the OD will be close enough to use any hose thats the same spec like said above.

SAE100R1 and 100R2 across the board no matter the manufacturer are all really close in OD. Its just that now everything is going to a constant pressure compact bend radius so the ODs are not the same and the hoses really dont have any SAE spec.

If you need some hose and want to use your old ends let me know i will be glad to help.[/quote]

I need some hose for my D46U. my ends are fine and i will re use them. do you sell the 100R1 hose?

D46U straight blade,D46U cat angle blade,allis chalmers AD4 grader and Khoering 404 dragline. D4C 40A,D4 2T and scraper.

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Fri, Aug 24, 2018 1:15 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to bursitis:
[quote="DWC7"]What we have done in the past is tig weld on spuds to the stem that goes down into the hose. From their we would just use JIC's on the hoses. Essentially making an adapter. Anchor use to make some of those 2 bolts but now days they are rare. If you can figure out if its a 1 or 2 wire hose that old should be SAE100R spec so the OD will be close enough to use any hose thats the same spec like said above.

SAE100R1 and 100R2 across the board no matter the manufacturer are all really close in OD. Its just that now everything is going to a constant pressure compact bend radius so the ODs are not the same and the hoses really dont have any SAE spec.

If you need some hose and want to use your old ends let me know i will be glad to help.[/quote]

I need some hose for my D46U. my ends are fine and i will re use them. do you sell the 100R1 hose?
Both my D4 dozers are plumbed with standard SAE 2 wire hose and Anchor clamps, been that way for decades with no problems. OD of both dozer hose sets is 1.160" which is less than the maximum OD's spec'd for either 1 wire or two wire hose. R1-3/4 @ 1.219" and R2 @ 1.281 OD.
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Fri, Aug 24, 2018 1:51 AM
DWC7
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Reply to bursitis:
[quote="DWC7"]What we have done in the past is tig weld on spuds to the stem that goes down into the hose. From their we would just use JIC's on the hoses. Essentially making an adapter. Anchor use to make some of those 2 bolts but now days they are rare. If you can figure out if its a 1 or 2 wire hose that old should be SAE100R spec so the OD will be close enough to use any hose thats the same spec like said above.

SAE100R1 and 100R2 across the board no matter the manufacturer are all really close in OD. Its just that now everything is going to a constant pressure compact bend radius so the ODs are not the same and the hoses really dont have any SAE spec.

If you need some hose and want to use your old ends let me know i will be glad to help.[/quote]

I need some hose for my D46U. my ends are fine and i will re use them. do you sell the 100R1 hose?


I sell every hose, fitting and adapter Parker Hannifin makes.
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Fri, Aug 24, 2018 2:46 AM
STEPHEN
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Reply to DWC7:


I sell every hose, fitting and adapter Parker Hannifin makes.
This is the hose I have been using with the anchor clamps
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Fri, Aug 24, 2018 5:37 AM
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