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24V or 2 X 12V for D2 Direct Electric Starter?

24V or 2 X 12V for D2 Direct Electric Starter?

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rhartwick
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The D2 I bought last spring was converted to direct electric start. The PO used 2 X 12V batteries - one under the hood where the old pony was, and a second on the fender, all connected in series by good thick cables. One of the 12V batteries is dead and the other marginal, so I'm rethinking if this was the best setup. At Tractor Supply at least, I don't see a lot of 24V batteries or chargers. Obviously, this setup doesn't get charged by the diesel, so I just put it on a charger overnight after I'm done using it, disconnecting one of the battery cables on the one on the fender, then charging each battery separately with a 12V charger.

Under the hood in the pony space, it looks like I could fit 2 smaller 12V side by side. I would have to make up new shorter cables. Or, I could fit a single 24V. The problem with the 2 X 12V batteries is they wouldn't be easily accessible to remove the cables so I could charge them with a 12V charger. The disadvantage of the 24V is so far, I'm not finding batteries or chargers as readily as 12V stuff.

How have others worked up the battery setup for direct 24V start?

Thanks.
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Tue, Aug 21, 2018 7:26 PM
dpendzic
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I have a 24v charger on my 2-12V batteries on my loader---there are many 24v chargers available from $50 to $100 range---i use to charge one 12v at a time-but never disconnected cables--just put + to + and - to - on each battery with the 12v charger leads
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Tue, Aug 21, 2018 7:36 PM
DPete
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Reply to dpendzic:
I have a 24v charger on my 2-12V batteries on my loader---there are many 24v chargers available from $50 to $100 range---i use to charge one 12v at a time-but never disconnected cables--just put + to + and - to - on each battery with the 12v charger leads
Battery Tender has a 24 v. maintainer, You can hook up their pigtail for hard to reach batteries, makes keeping batteries up EZ
1962 D4C
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Tue, Aug 21, 2018 9:02 PM
ccjersey
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Never seen a 24 volt battery for sale so I question trying to go down that road. Traditionally 24 volt systems have either two 12 volts 7nnseries or even four 6 volts. I think the 6 volt setups were more popular 40 years ago than now.

If you can fit them in the space, group 31 batteries (used in most heavy trucks) are the cheapest and generally highest quality batteries available today. They are available with either traditional post terminals or stud terminals. I much prefer the stud terminals because making series or parallel connections is much easier. It is pretty simple to stack 2 or 3 ring terminals on the stud if needed. Also I can make cables with a hydraulic crimper I bought off ebay for less than $30. Before I got that one I had made a crimper out of an old broken bolt cutter by grinding the jaws.

If you want to charge a set of 12 volt batteries connected in series, as mentioned already, there is no need to disconnect the cables. Just match positive and negative 12 volt charger leads to the corresponding battery terminals. If the connections you need are not accessible you could run smaller wires out to a plug that has the correct polarity to make your connections for charging.

Any time you have multiple batteries you will find that one lasts longer than the other. Even in parallel connections, though one shorted battery will discharge all of the others, if you separate them and charge individually you will usually find some are still somewhat usable. Eventually one shorted battery will ruin all those connected in parallel with it by sulfating the plates from being discharged all the time. In series connections you don't have the problem of a shorted battery discharging the other battery but you do have problems resulting from uneven charging that results when you apply the correct series voltage to a string with bad batteries included.

For best life of any multiple battery "banks", it is always best to replace all of them with identical batteries at the same time. This usually results in some "good used" batteries being left over. I make use of these in other vehicles that use only a single battery or group them in banks of similar age and type.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Tue, Aug 21, 2018 10:08 PM
STEPHEN
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Reply to ccjersey:
Never seen a 24 volt battery for sale so I question trying to go down that road. Traditionally 24 volt systems have either two 12 volts 7nnseries or even four 6 volts. I think the 6 volt setups were more popular 40 years ago than now.

If you can fit them in the space, group 31 batteries (used in most heavy trucks) are the cheapest and generally highest quality batteries available today. They are available with either traditional post terminals or stud terminals. I much prefer the stud terminals because making series or parallel connections is much easier. It is pretty simple to stack 2 or 3 ring terminals on the stud if needed. Also I can make cables with a hydraulic crimper I bought off ebay for less than $30. Before I got that one I had made a crimper out of an old broken bolt cutter by grinding the jaws.

If you want to charge a set of 12 volt batteries connected in series, as mentioned already, there is no need to disconnect the cables. Just match positive and negative 12 volt charger leads to the corresponding battery terminals. If the connections you need are not accessible you could run smaller wires out to a plug that has the correct polarity to make your connections for charging.

Any time you have multiple batteries you will find that one lasts longer than the other. Even in parallel connections, though one shorted battery will discharge all of the others, if you separate them and charge individually you will usually find some are still somewhat usable. Eventually one shorted battery will ruin all those connected in parallel with it by sulfating the plates from being discharged all the time. In series connections you don't have the problem of a shorted battery discharging the other battery but you do have problems resulting from uneven charging that results when you apply the correct series voltage to a string with bad batteries included.

For best life of any multiple battery "banks", it is always best to replace all of them with identical batteries at the same time. This usually results in some "good used" batteries being left over. I make use of these in other vehicles that use only a single battery or group them in banks of similar age and type.
You could always charge from the tractor with a 24v gen, or a 12v & series/parallel switch.
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Wed, Aug 22, 2018 12:34 AM
rhartwick
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Reply to STEPHEN:
You could always charge from the tractor with a 24v gen, or a 12v & series/parallel switch.
Thanks for all the input on my question. Sounds like finding 2 new 12V batteries to fit within the space is the best way to go.

I still have a question on the charger. My electrical ignorance is vast, but the batteries are connected in series (+ to -, - to +), so the overall output is 24V. If I simply hook a battery charger up to the + and - of the nearest battery, why wouldn't I need a 24V charger?
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Wed, Aug 22, 2018 2:18 AM
itsad8
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Reply to rhartwick:
Thanks for all the input on my question. Sounds like finding 2 new 12V batteries to fit within the space is the best way to go.

I still have a question on the charger. My electrical ignorance is vast, but the batteries are connected in series (+ to -, - to +), so the overall output is 24V. If I simply hook a battery charger up to the + and - of the nearest battery, why wouldn't I need a 24V charger?
I had a GM 1 wire alternator and my batteries were going dead. I had it tested, it was a 12 volt alternator. I don't know who put it on but it wasn't going to charge the 2 BIG batteries wired together.

I just bought a 24 volt 1 wire alternator, worked like a charm.
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Wed, Aug 22, 2018 2:32 AM
dpendzic
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Reply to rhartwick:
Thanks for all the input on my question. Sounds like finding 2 new 12V batteries to fit within the space is the best way to go.

I still have a question on the charger. My electrical ignorance is vast, but the batteries are connected in series (+ to -, - to +), so the overall output is 24V. If I simply hook a battery charger up to the + and - of the nearest battery, why wouldn't I need a 24V charger?
[quote="rhartwick"]Thanks for all the input on my question. Sounds like finding 2 new 12V batteries to fit within the space is the best way to go.

I still have a question on the charger. My electrical ignorance is vast, but the batteries are connected in series (+ to -, - to +), so the overall output is 24V. If I simply hook a battery charger up to the + and - of the nearest battery, why wouldn't I need a 24V charger?[/quote]

series connection is + to- to + to - to get 24 volts--a 24 volt charger would be connected to the first battery + and to the second battery -
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Wed, Aug 22, 2018 4:11 AM
ccjersey
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Series connection
starter solenoid ....cable.....+/////////-.....cable.....+/////////-..........cable.....ground to frame

Charger will attach to + on one end of the string or starter solenoid terminal and - or frame on other

I expect you made a mistake saying the batteries were connected + to- and - to + but that would be a parallel connection for 12 volts with one battery charged up in reverse polarity........it can happen........i know.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Wed, Aug 22, 2018 6:46 AM
harperjmichael
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As far as a "charging" solution, tie to the starter solenoid pos lug and to the starter ground lug and you'd be at the correct 24v if that's what your batteries and starter are configured for. I'm planning on putting a set of charging posts on the side of mine after I get the "DES" conversion done but I'm doing mine with 12V and two batteries in parallel. Many drag race cars have these charging posts at the rear that they use between passes since they save weight and parasitic loss by not having an alternator.
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Fri, Aug 24, 2018 2:31 AM
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