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ROPS vs. shade canopy - check this dependzic...

ROPS vs. shade canopy - check this dependzic...

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seiscat
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There was a post a while back about tractors working a train wreck. I commented that the 'dozers didn't have ROPS canopies, dependzic wanted to know the difference. I had the chance to take a pic of a D8K equipped with a Cat ROPS and I copied one of the pics from the train wreck post.
[attachment=47779]D8K 5X7 crop1.jpg[/attachment] [attachment=47780]shade canopy.jpg[/attachment]

Craig
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Fri, Mar 23, 2018 2:18 AM
dpendzic
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Thanks Craig-My question was really how do you know other than bye looks as to the structural strength of the canopy? If the assumed ROPS is factory issued we could assume that it will resist the roll over forces--I agree some of the canopy's look lame but they could have hidden reinforcement that we can't see and may be able to withstand a rollover possibly??
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Fri, Mar 23, 2018 3:37 AM
Deas Plant.
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Hi, Seiscat.
Thanks for taking the time to find and post those photos. I think the photo of the D8K with ROPS pretty much says it all as far as having a standard ROPS on a sideboom is concerned. The front of that ROPS would be getting severely chewed up by the luffing ropes on a sideboom.

[attachment=47784]DSCN0897.jpg[/attachment][attachment=47783]DSCN0893.jpg[/attachment][attachment=47781]Cat D8 13A High Output sideboom with 14A-ed hood and firewall_1L_EI.jpg[/attachment][attachment=47782]Cat D8 13A High Output sideboom with 14A-ed hood and firewall_1A_EI.jpg[/attachment]

The first photo seems to show that the ROPS cabs fitted to hi-sprocket sidebooms may be slightly different from the standard ones. The third photo is to give folks some idea of what it was like to run an older sideboom. From what I can find about, that tractor is a Hi-Output 13A with 14A hood and firewall treatment.

Just my 0.02.
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You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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Fri, Mar 23, 2018 3:56 AM
Andrew
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Some great photos Deas. But I would suggest the tractor in the last two photos is earlier than a 13A as I believe I can see a slide shift gear lever in there. This would make it a early 2U or older . Not being picky. Just enjoy trying to identify tractors.
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Fri, Mar 23, 2018 4:20 AM
Old Magnet
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13A tractors never came with a torque converter.
The extra capacity fuel tank didn't come in until 13A959
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Fri, Mar 23, 2018 6:17 AM
Deas Plant.
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Hi, Andrew.
Upon closer inspection, it would appear that you are right about that slidebar transmission. I just grabbed that photo off the 'net, quickly saved it, with its caption, to my computer and then uploaded it 'cos it showed the control deck of an earlier sideboom. Now add in an extra gear shift lever to the collection already there.

Hi, Garlic Pete.
It was my understanding that the addition to the fuel tank on the 13As was to cover the extra fuel they used to gain the added power over a 2U. As I understand it, torque converters of any description, fuel-fed or otherwise, weren't fitted to any Cat crawlers until the 15A D8. A sideboom would not need that extension as much as they tend to do a fair bit of idling during a day's work and are seldom if ever working hard. The extension may also have interfered with some of the sideboom equipment or controls. The master clutch lever has been modified to fit in with the sideboom mounting framework inboard of the left fender.

I have blown the first of the 2 '13A' photos up by quite a bit and it does show the separate exhaust manifolds for front and rear stacks. I also have some photos of 'alleged' Hi-Output D8s with only the one air cleaner inlet but with twin exhaust stacks. Furthermore, it appears to me that the hood has been lengthened to accommodate the balancer. Just sayin'.

Just my 0.02.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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Fri, Mar 23, 2018 6:33 AM
neil
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Reply to Deas Plant.:
Hi, Andrew.
Upon closer inspection, it would appear that you are right about that slidebar transmission. I just grabbed that photo off the 'net, quickly saved it, with its caption, to my computer and then uploaded it 'cos it showed the control deck of an earlier sideboom. Now add in an extra gear shift lever to the collection already there.

Hi, Garlic Pete.
It was my understanding that the addition to the fuel tank on the 13As was to cover the extra fuel they used to gain the added power over a 2U. As I understand it, torque converters of any description, fuel-fed or otherwise, weren't fitted to any Cat crawlers until the 15A D8. A sideboom would not need that extension as much as they tend to do a fair bit of idling during a day's work and are seldom if ever working hard. The extension may also have interfered with some of the sideboom equipment or controls. The master clutch lever has been modified to fit in with the sideboom mounting framework inboard of the left fender.

I have blown the first of the 2 '13A' photos up by quite a bit and it does show the separate exhaust manifolds for front and rear stacks. I also have some photos of 'alleged' Hi-Output D8s with only the one air cleaner inlet but with twin exhaust stacks. Furthermore, it appears to me that the hood has been lengthened to accommodate the balancer. Just sayin'.

Just my 0.02.
13A and 14A are both manual transmission. Not sure about 15A but it's some kind of slush box : )
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Fri, Mar 23, 2018 8:55 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to neil:
13A and 14A are both manual transmission. Not sure about 15A but it's some kind of slush box : )
15A's have the three stage torque converter, their own unique over center main clutch, manual transmission and used fuel as the torque converter fluid.
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Fri, Mar 23, 2018 9:47 AM
Deas Plant.
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Reply to neil:
13A and 14A are both manual transmission. Not sure about 15A but it's some kind of slush box : )
Hi, Neil.
I have never operated a 15A but, as I understand it, the 15A had an entirely different transmission from any of its predecessors, designed specifically for use with the torque converter and I seem to remember somebody saying that it was only 3-speed. I also understand that it only had a single plate master clutch that could be problematic if it was engaged at anything much above an idle, especially under load.

Hi Garlic Pete.
The 13As were the last of the line with the D13000 engines, following on from 1H, 8R and 2U series. I think the 13A series was only built for 2 years, from 1953 to 1955, when the 14A and 15A were released. The 14A and 15A tractors had the later D342 engine which continued into the 'H' series, which was also why some of the stretched D8s had 36A engines transplanted into them in later life, 'cos it was relatively easy.

IIRC, the D8s didn't go powershift until the 'H' series.

Just my 0.02.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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Fri, Mar 23, 2018 9:54 AM
neil
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Reply to Deas Plant.:
Hi, Neil.
I have never operated a 15A but, as I understand it, the 15A had an entirely different transmission from any of its predecessors, designed specifically for use with the torque converter and I seem to remember somebody saying that it was only 3-speed. I also understand that it only had a single plate master clutch that could be problematic if it was engaged at anything much above an idle, especially under load.

Hi Garlic Pete.
The 13As were the last of the line with the D13000 engines, following on from 1H, 8R and 2U series. I think the 13A series was only built for 2 years, from 1953 to 1955, when the 14A and 15A were released. The 14A and 15A tractors had the later D342 engine which continued into the 'H' series, which was also why some of the stretched D8s had 36A engines transplanted into them in later life, 'cos it was relatively easy.

IIRC, the D8s didn't go powershift until the 'H' series.

Just my 0.02.
Thanks Deas, I believe there's an example running around this neck of the woods so if I spot it at the Canandaigua show, I'll take some photos. A fellow that I hauled logs from had a D9 that had a similar sounding setup - it had a main clutch, a torque convertor / fluid flywheel / whatever terminology they used, and a manual transmission. I sat on it a few times while he put in skid sites and observed that as he cut in the batters, the transmission would stall as I expect it was intended to do when the torque requirement was overcome.
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Fri, Mar 23, 2018 8:24 PM
Sprocket71
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Reply to neil:
13A and 14A are both manual transmission. Not sure about 15A but it's some kind of slush box : )
15A's were the only D8 to have a fuel torque converter that I have heard of. They were not successful as they leaked by design to lubricate the output seal. They heated the fuel if used for heavy pulling such as agriculture, plowing,etc. They were designed for short cycle work such as construction. I resealed one torque converter twice before I was informed they are supposed to do that. I have only seen one in the late 70's
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Sat, Mar 24, 2018 1:34 AM
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