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D6 9u valve stem seal retrofit

D6 9u valve stem seal retrofit

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Catboy1
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Okay guys, what do you think? I am trying to retrofit valve stem seals onto a d318 at the advice of cat finning in Nanaimo. When I had the pre coms out to do the seals, I noticed that after a couple of days, two of the Pistons had about a two inch puddle of oil on them. They were the cylinders that had the injector nozzles completely coated in oil when I removed them. Also, when running, the exhaust does a big (bigger) puff of blue about every five seconds, which I assume is a drop of oil leaking past the guides. They (cat finning) assumed there would be valve stem seals out there that would fit. After much searching, calling a few different machine shops and Lorco and Napa and lots of web time, nothing for the .435 size they gave me. The next idea I had, even though I was not sure if regular oil seals could handle reciprocating motion instead of rotational, was to machine some little caps that would hold a regular oil seal in place. No luck on that size either, unless I wanted to wait six weeks to get them through the States. When I was going through the SKF catalog, there was an abrasion resistance chart comparing different types of material. It turns out leather has a higher resistance than nitrile rubber. I then had a crazy idea. Why not make my own seals out of leather? Old piston water pumps and old bike air pumps use a leather sealing gasket. I would still make little cups that hold a leather doughnut in place. Would it withstand the heat? It sure fits the era of the machine. Why not just remove the head and do it properly, you might ask? Money, money ,money. Time and machining and the leather are free. That is the right price for me. Am I crazy? or do you guys think it'll work? Robyn
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Sun, Sep 25, 2016 12:04 AM
drujinin
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You have no money and time is free, so try it!
What do you have to lose?👍
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Sun, Sep 25, 2016 4:23 AM
neil
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Reply to drujinin:
You have no money and time is free, so try it!
What do you have to lose?👍
One way to find out...please report back results : )
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Sun, Sep 25, 2016 4:45 AM
edb
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Reply to neil:
One way to find out...please report back results : )
Hi Robyn,
down here a local GM product used very small square section O Rings below the collets, down inside the valve spring cap between the cap and stem but under the collets, to help control stem oil leakage down to the guide/stem area.
On most engines I have run with the valve covers off, I have seen most oil comes from the ends of the rocker arms.
It then runs onto the valve spring cap and down past the collets.
This lends some weight to fitting the small stem seals to helping alleviate some of the stem oil leakage.

Some later Cat engines had an O Ring groove machined into the inner face of the valve spring cap, where it fits to the valve stem, for a small round O ring to fit for this purpose.
If there were enough meat in this area maybe your caps could be machined too.
Just a few thoughts.
The enforced Windows 10 highjack and updates have rendered my steam driven copier useless so I need to save some pension to buy another or I would see if I had something to scan.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Sun, Sep 25, 2016 7:04 AM
Catboy1
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Reply to edb:
Hi Robyn,
down here a local GM product used very small square section O Rings below the collets, down inside the valve spring cap between the cap and stem but under the collets, to help control stem oil leakage down to the guide/stem area.
On most engines I have run with the valve covers off, I have seen most oil comes from the ends of the rocker arms.
It then runs onto the valve spring cap and down past the collets.
This lends some weight to fitting the small stem seals to helping alleviate some of the stem oil leakage.

Some later Cat engines had an O Ring groove machined into the inner face of the valve spring cap, where it fits to the valve stem, for a small round O ring to fit for this purpose.
If there were enough meat in this area maybe your caps could be machined too.
Just a few thoughts.
The enforced Windows 10 highjack and updates have rendered my steam driven copier useless so I need to save some pension to buy another or I would see if I had something to scan.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Well, here they are. Not the nicest machining in the world, but I'm hoping it'll do the trick. I took pieces of stainless pipe (it was the closest thing I had to the right diameter) and welded little stainless washers on that I had cut out with a hole saw. Then I got em down to the right size (hopefully!) and now I'm going to hold the leather washers into the cup with a tincey amount of blue gasket compound. I am also going to put a little bit of gasket compound on the top of the valve guide in case these guys expand when they heat up. Once they are in place, I'm going to fill the little lip, between the cup and the leather washer, with oil and let it soak in for a day or two, hoping that the leather will swell and make a tighter fit. Another thing I have done while the valve springs were off, was turn the valves back and forth. I did this with a slow drill on the stem, two at a time, while I had the air compressor hooked up to that particular cylinder. It would turn very easily for about three times back and forth, with a sandy grinding noise. Then all of a sudden it would get very hard to turn and make a metal on metal squealing noise, at which point I would stop right away. My theory is the sandy grinding noise is burnt on ash deposits coming off and then I'm back to valve on seat contact. Do you guys think that might be correct? I am very excited to start her back up and see the results. Robyn
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Sat, Oct 1, 2016 11:36 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to Catboy1:
Well, here they are. Not the nicest machining in the world, but I'm hoping it'll do the trick. I took pieces of stainless pipe (it was the closest thing I had to the right diameter) and welded little stainless washers on that I had cut out with a hole saw. Then I got em down to the right size (hopefully!) and now I'm going to hold the leather washers into the cup with a tincey amount of blue gasket compound. I am also going to put a little bit of gasket compound on the top of the valve guide in case these guys expand when they heat up. Once they are in place, I'm going to fill the little lip, between the cup and the leather washer, with oil and let it soak in for a day or two, hoping that the leather will swell and make a tighter fit. Another thing I have done while the valve springs were off, was turn the valves back and forth. I did this with a slow drill on the stem, two at a time, while I had the air compressor hooked up to that particular cylinder. It would turn very easily for about three times back and forth, with a sandy grinding noise. Then all of a sudden it would get very hard to turn and make a metal on metal squealing noise, at which point I would stop right away. My theory is the sandy grinding noise is burnt on ash deposits coming off and then I'm back to valve on seat contact. Do you guys think that might be correct? I am very excited to start her back up and see the results. Robyn
Attachment
Attachment
Seems like the long way round for not replacing valve guides and possibly worn valve stems. If the guides are that worn I'd expect the loose fit would knock out those seals in short order. That okie valve seating process doesn't do anything about proper valve seating if valves and seats are pitted/worn. Your just knocking off the crud.
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Sun, Oct 2, 2016 12:45 AM
Catboy1
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Seems like the long way round for not replacing valve guides and possibly worn valve stems. If the guides are that worn I'd expect the loose fit would knock out those seals in short order. That okie valve seating process doesn't do anything about proper valve seating if valves and seats are pitted/worn. Your just knocking off the crud.
It is definitely a band aid fix. When I have some money to put into it, my plan is to properly do the head and the liners at the same time. One of the cylinders has pretty bad blow by, the compressor (it's a little dewalt one) didn't cycle off it just had to stay running. In a perfect world, I would find another head to have redone and have all of the liner parts and accosiated gaskets on hand before tear down.
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Sun, Oct 2, 2016 1:11 AM
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