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3304 Totally confused!!!

3304 Totally confused!!!

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ddk114
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Cat 941 B Serial 80H04086, 2P6776 engine arrangement, engine serial 78P1842. Had a major overhaul 1300 hours ago with major block work. #2 cylinder is dead. Upon disassembly found #2 had a severely bent exhaust pushrod, oil/fuel in coolant system, crack in head on #3 from injector to valve. Head gasket appears not to be blown out or deformed. ONE GASKET--NO SPACER PLATE. Everything looks good on bottom end.
My parts book has head part # 2P6274. I don't have access to see if this number was superseded to another number. The head I pulled from the Cleveland Bros. overhaul has a casting # 2W654. My research found one listed for a 3304 as 8N1188 PC/SP for casting # 2W654. I am assuming that this means pre-chambers and spacer plate. BUT I DON'T HAVE A SPACER PLATE!!!
My question is what is the correct part # ??? Can a spacer plate head be used on a non-spacer plate engine?? How did the oil get into the cooling system??? What effect does a bent exhaust pushrod have on the flow of fuel/air through that cylinder??? I tend to think that the air would be trapped with additional fuel being added with each cycle. That fuel has to go somewhere. It did make a lot of white/blue smoke.
I thank you for replying in advance. I sometimes get a little baffled trying to figure stuff out. I thought this was a good one for you experts. Will be purchasing a NEW head as soon as we get this figured out. Thanks again.
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Tue, Jul 19, 2016 10:16 PM
Old Magnet
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Spacer plate engine heads do not interchange with non-spacer plate engines. There are differences in coolant passage ferrule seals/dimensions and the rocker arm oil supply passage location and configuration.
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Tue, Jul 19, 2016 11:26 PM
dpendzic
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Spacer plate engine heads do not interchange with non-spacer plate engines. There are differences in coolant passage ferrule seals/dimensions and the rocker arm oil supply passage location and configuration.
my online parts store shows 2P6274 is the correct head but there is an indirect replacement-contact dealer
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Tue, Jul 19, 2016 11:47 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to dpendzic:
my online parts store shows 2P6274 is the correct head but there is an indirect replacement-contact dealer
You need to look for the late replacement 4N7444 cylinder head assembly. Early style non spacer plate. Casting numbers 6N8016, 2P6484 or 6N8874 or an original 2P6274 assy.
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Wed, Jul 20, 2016 10:51 PM
ddk114
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Reply to Old Magnet:
You need to look for the late replacement 4N7444 cylinder head assembly. Early style non spacer plate. Casting numbers 6N8016, 2P6484 or 6N8874 or an original 2P6274 assy.
There is a thing called a Master Reman Technical Supplement. I spent a little time looking through it online to find what I needed. It keeps track of changing part numbers and exactly what goes with what. You can take those numbers and wash them through the online cat store for verification. The new part number for 2P6274 is 8N1188. I verified that number by requesting a quote for a head based solely on the serial number of the machine. It came back with the same number. The 2W654 casting number was found in the supplement as 2W0654. I washed that through the store, and guess what I found? >>> 8N1188. I'm tired now, I think I deserve some sleep! Thanks everyone.
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Thu, Jul 21, 2016 9:45 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to ddk114:
There is a thing called a Master Reman Technical Supplement. I spent a little time looking through it online to find what I needed. It keeps track of changing part numbers and exactly what goes with what. You can take those numbers and wash them through the online cat store for verification. The new part number for 2P6274 is 8N1188. I verified that number by requesting a quote for a head based solely on the serial number of the machine. It came back with the same number. The 2W654 casting number was found in the supplement as 2W0654. I washed that through the store, and guess what I found? >>> 8N1188. I'm tired now, I think I deserve some sleep! Thanks everyone.
That's not what my parts book and info is saying. I'd advise you to check further and understand the differences between non spacer plate and spacer plate heads. Especially in light of the problems you are having.
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Thu, Jul 21, 2016 10:33 AM
ddk114
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Reply to Old Magnet:
That's not what my parts book and info is saying. I'd advise you to check further and understand the differences between non spacer plate and spacer plate heads. Especially in light of the problems you are having.
if you run 4N7444 through the Cat online store it will come back as new part # 8N1188. There are additional Reman numbers there as well, which were on my quote too. I think where the spacer plate issue came up was from several listings I saw for the 2W654 that had 3304 PC/SP. Google 2W654 Cat Head and you will see what I mean. It may be an error in their listing. But at this stage of the game, everything I have points to the 8N1188. The last thing I want to do was order the wrong part.

Quantity Part Number Part Name New Order Quantity New Part Number New Part Name Availability
1 4N-7444 HEAD A 1 8N-1188 CYL HEAD GRP YORK - 1 DAY



Alternate Parts - Select from the offered alternatives. Quantity Part Number Part Name Availability Unit Price (USD)
Original 8N-1188 CYL HEAD GRP YORK - 1 DAY 1,808.29
Remanufactured 0R-2673 HEAD G REM Contact Dealer 1,569.71
CORE DEPOSIT ++ 1,351.45
Remanufactured 0R-2674 HEAD G REM Contact Dealer 1,569.71
CORE DEPOSIT ++ 1,351.45
Classicâ„¢ Parts 241-3381 VALVE KT-CLA MORTON - 3 DAYS 75.48
Classicâ„¢ Parts 242-3436 HEAD AS-CLA YORK - 1 DAY 1,095.73

Quote

Your Cat reman part number is 0r-2673 the price is 1569.71$ with 1351.45$ core plus shipping from Ohio .

We can also get you a new after market ,,, part number is 8n-1188 the price is 1175.00$ outright with on core, inbound shipping included. from Texas.
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Thu, Jul 21, 2016 11:12 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to ddk114:
if you run 4N7444 through the Cat online store it will come back as new part # 8N1188. There are additional Reman numbers there as well, which were on my quote too. I think where the spacer plate issue came up was from several listings I saw for the 2W654 that had 3304 PC/SP. Google 2W654 Cat Head and you will see what I mean. It may be an error in their listing. But at this stage of the game, everything I have points to the 8N1188. The last thing I want to do was order the wrong part.

Quantity Part Number Part Name New Order Quantity New Part Number New Part Name Availability
1 4N-7444 HEAD A 1 8N-1188 CYL HEAD GRP YORK - 1 DAY



Alternate Parts - Select from the offered alternatives. Quantity Part Number Part Name Availability Unit Price (USD)
Original 8N-1188 CYL HEAD GRP YORK - 1 DAY 1,808.29
Remanufactured 0R-2673 HEAD G REM Contact Dealer 1,569.71
CORE DEPOSIT ++ 1,351.45
Remanufactured 0R-2674 HEAD G REM Contact Dealer 1,569.71
CORE DEPOSIT ++ 1,351.45
Classicâ„¢ Parts 241-3381 VALVE KT-CLA MORTON - 3 DAYS 75.48
Classicâ„¢ Parts 242-3436 HEAD AS-CLA YORK - 1 DAY 1,095.73

Quote

Your Cat reman part number is 0r-2673 the price is 1569.71$ with 1351.45$ core plus shipping from Ohio .

We can also get you a new after market ,,, part number is 8n-1188 the price is 1175.00$ outright with on core, inbound shipping included. from Texas.
It's more than just chasing numbers, often erroneous.
From Form # SENR7883 "3304 & 3306 engine supplement for engines with spacer plate."
Unless the cylinder head has the features to handle the correct installation your going to have problems (like you have)
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Thu, Jul 21, 2016 11:59 PM
ddk114
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Reply to Old Magnet:
It's more than just chasing numbers, often erroneous.
From Form # SENR7883 "3304 & 3306 engine supplement for engines with spacer plate."
Unless the cylinder head has the features to handle the correct installation your going to have problems (like you have)
Checked out parts to verify the info sent to me. The block has no extra ports for oil to rocker arms--non-spacer plate engine. Rocker arm supports have no oil passages than around bolt--non-spacer plate rocker supports. The 5S6277 head gasket washes to 7N7386, which is the one on it. I do see an extra hole on the 2W654 head that goes clear through. The head gasket is not open over the hole and there is no extra hole in block for it to match to. The location of the hole is just forward of the rear rocker support bolt. This could possibly make the 2W654 head usable for both types of engines. So what we have here is a dual purpose head on a non-spacer plate engine.
You really made me do my homework! Thanks for supplying the extra info to verify everything. I'll let you know how everything works out.
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Fri, Jul 22, 2016 8:38 AM
ddk114
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Reply to ddk114:
Checked out parts to verify the info sent to me. The block has no extra ports for oil to rocker arms--non-spacer plate engine. Rocker arm supports have no oil passages than around bolt--non-spacer plate rocker supports. The 5S6277 head gasket washes to 7N7386, which is the one on it. I do see an extra hole on the 2W654 head that goes clear through. The head gasket is not open over the hole and there is no extra hole in block for it to match to. The location of the hole is just forward of the rear rocker support bolt. This could possibly make the 2W654 head usable for both types of engines. So what we have here is a dual purpose head on a non-spacer plate engine.
You really made me do my homework! Thanks for supplying the extra info to verify everything. I'll let you know how everything works out.
will need to pull the PC chambers from the old head. I don't believe that a loaded head will come with these. The parts book lists seals(4 each), and three different thickness of gaskets(4 each). Are they all used? Or is something that you use as required? I don't have any detailed information on this.
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Fri, Jul 22, 2016 9:31 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to ddk114:
will need to pull the PC chambers from the old head. I don't believe that a loaded head will come with these. The parts book lists seals(4 each), and three different thickness of gaskets(4 each). Are they all used? Or is something that you use as required? I don't have any detailed information on this.
If the head uses glow plug chambers alternate thickness seat washers are used to index the glow plug locations to clear injection lines. There is a procedure to follow to get the recommended indexing.
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Fri, Jul 22, 2016 11:52 AM
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