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Rusted / broken bolt removal

Rusted / broken bolt removal

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krisinwa.st.
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I'm sure this has come up before, any ideas on how to remove
rusted / and broken bolts ( not studs ) out of a cast iron cylinder
block ? after removing the valves / pistons I'm considering heating
the bolts , one at a time to a light orange color then letting cool
for about ten seconds more or less , carefully work it back and forth
with a vice grips to loosen . I don't have a welder so welding a hex
nut isn't a option , and I never have had any luck with drilling /
easy out , that always seems to turn into a disaster...
I realize this is not Cat related , but I thought I'd run it by you guys
anyway
Thanks for looking , Kris
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Sun, Aug 9, 2015 11:33 AM
Lance Jones
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Hi Kris ,
I have a couple methods for removal of "Bad Ones' You can warm them up and hold an Ordinary Candle on it and the wax will penetrate down and more often than not they screw out no problem, ATF will also work . Other method that Usually works , might sound Strange ,is to Heat Bolt and then Put water around thread, You will need to repeat many Times but the steam Bubbles out the rust and eventually you win . I have successfully removed 70 Year old studs out of manifolds this way , Just be patient . Looks like You are Working on an old Wisconsin ?? LJ
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Sun, Aug 9, 2015 4:10 PM
JoeG
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Reply to Lance Jones:
Hi Kris ,
I have a couple methods for removal of "Bad Ones' You can warm them up and hold an Ordinary Candle on it and the wax will penetrate down and more often than not they screw out no problem, ATF will also work . Other method that Usually works , might sound Strange ,is to Heat Bolt and then Put water around thread, You will need to repeat many Times but the steam Bubbles out the rust and eventually you win . I have successfully removed 70 Year old studs out of manifolds this way , Just be patient . Looks like You are Working on an old Wisconsin ?? LJ
Find someone with a welder, those are perfect candidates for the welding a nut on technique. Do it before you fudge the thread up and you will have good success with it. Who works on old stuff like this and doesn't have a welder? That essential skill and tool to have in my humble opinion.
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Sun, Aug 9, 2015 6:27 PM
drujinin
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Reply to JoeG:
Find someone with a welder, those are perfect candidates for the welding a nut on technique. Do it before you fudge the thread up and you will have good success with it. Who works on old stuff like this and doesn't have a welder? That essential skill and tool to have in my humble opinion.
Hay Baler Engine? Remember that particular application! HAHA!
All good advice!
BUT!
If you don't know someone with a welder, go ahead put the heat to the bolt it will shrink as it cools with the listed penetrants trying to work down in. Tap/hit them with a hammer to jar the rust bond on the threads. Lastly heat the cast iron around it(more than a 1/2" away) to expand the iron to make the hole larger. This works part of the time for me. They are crusty but with a good pair of vise grips holding them, you should get them out!
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Sun, Aug 9, 2015 6:39 PM
tctractors
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Reply to drujinin:
Hay Baler Engine? Remember that particular application! HAHA!
All good advice!
BUT!
If you don't know someone with a welder, go ahead put the heat to the bolt it will shrink as it cools with the listed penetrants trying to work down in. Tap/hit them with a hammer to jar the rust bond on the threads. Lastly heat the cast iron around it(more than a 1/2" away) to expand the iron to make the hole larger. This works part of the time for me. They are crusty but with a good pair of vise grips holding them, you should get them out!
I would think the best way to remove those stumps is by firstly welding a good strong Washer to them, this puts a nice bit of heat into the stump, then weld a Bolt or Nut to the washer, I often go for a scrap CAT Bolt for this trick as they are good Steel, you need to try undoing the item with the heat of the welding aiding you. tctractors
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Mon, Aug 10, 2015 12:09 AM
STEPHEN
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Reply to tctractors:
I would think the best way to remove those stumps is by firstly welding a good strong Washer to them, this puts a nice bit of heat into the stump, then weld a Bolt or Nut to the washer, I often go for a scrap CAT Bolt for this trick as they are good Steel, you need to try undoing the item with the heat of the welding aiding you. tctractors
You haven't stated exactly what tools are at your disposal, but I gather you have some kind of torch. You could try repeated sessions of heating the bolt ends and housing followed by hammer tapping on the bolt. Any twisting applied to preserve what bolt end is left. Save the Nuclear options for later if you don't have a lot of tools or experience, or both. Perhaps some kind soul reading this in your general area could help you out.
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Mon, Aug 10, 2015 2:56 AM
cojhl2
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Reply to STEPHEN:
You haven't stated exactly what tools are at your disposal, but I gather you have some kind of torch. You could try repeated sessions of heating the bolt ends and housing followed by hammer tapping on the bolt. Any twisting applied to preserve what bolt end is left. Save the Nuclear options for later if you don't have a lot of tools or experience, or both. Perhaps some kind soul reading this in your general area could help you out.
I have some of these 3/8 bolts broken off where there is nothing sticking up above the face. I suppose someone in the past merely used a rattle gun on these without working them loose. They are mostly on the floor plans of one of my 9U's.

A friend told me it was possible to use a cutting torch in those holes to remove what is left of the bolts.

Is this possible and if so what is the technique to do it?

Thanks for any help anyone can give.
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Mon, Aug 10, 2015 11:45 AM
krisinwa.st.
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Reply to STEPHEN:
You haven't stated exactly what tools are at your disposal, but I gather you have some kind of torch. You could try repeated sessions of heating the bolt ends and housing followed by hammer tapping on the bolt. Any twisting applied to preserve what bolt end is left. Save the Nuclear options for later if you don't have a lot of tools or experience, or both. Perhaps some kind soul reading this in your general area could help you out.
I want to thank everyone for all the different methods and ideas ,
all great advice . I have recently moved and my shop is a long way
from being set up , so the only tools available for the task are my
oxygen / acetylene torch , assorted tips , drill press and hand tools.
I think I'm going to try the ; heat / atf-diesel mix / light tapping
with a small ball peen hammer , using the smallest torch tip I have
concentrate the heat on the bolt only , I'm afraid to get the cylinder
block deck and valve seats to hot , wouldn't that cause damage /
and or warpage ? , and I'm not sure about a change in temper ?
And yes its a TFD Wisconsin that was originally on a two string
hay baler ,
I'll keep you guys updated on my progress , Kris
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Mon, Aug 10, 2015 12:01 PM
STEPHEN
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Reply to cojhl2:
I have some of these 3/8 bolts broken off where there is nothing sticking up above the face. I suppose someone in the past merely used a rattle gun on these without working them loose. They are mostly on the floor plans of one of my 9U's.

A friend told me it was possible to use a cutting torch in those holes to remove what is left of the bolts.

Is this possible and if so what is the technique to do it?

Thanks for any help anyone can give.
[quote="cojhl2"]I have some of these 3/8 bolts broken off where there is nothing sticking up above the face. I suppose someone in the past merely used a rattle gun on these without working them loose. They are mostly on the floor plans of one of my 9U's.

A friend told me it was possible to use a cutting torch in those holes to remove what is left of the bolts.

Is this possible and if so what is the technique to do it?

Thanks for any help anyone can give.[/quote]

John, I have successfully torched broken fasteners out of threaded holes as small as 5/16". It is almost a requirement that they be a through hole in the case of small bolts. For a 3/8, first drill a hole through the center about 1/8" dia. Then play the preheating flame down the hole. If you can get the bolt red hot, let it cool down and try to turn it with an easy out because it may have shrunk and got looser. If repeated heating does not work then proceed to blow the bolt out just to the edge of the minor diameter. What you want to avoid is stopping before the cut gets all the way through because it is easy for slag to cool and plug the hole. Clean up using small center punches, scribes & bottom tap to remove bolt fragments. You could practice on some scrap metal ( or as I call it "merchandise")
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Mon, Aug 10, 2015 6:39 PM
cojhl2
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Reply to STEPHEN:
[quote="cojhl2"]I have some of these 3/8 bolts broken off where there is nothing sticking up above the face. I suppose someone in the past merely used a rattle gun on these without working them loose. They are mostly on the floor plans of one of my 9U's.

A friend told me it was possible to use a cutting torch in those holes to remove what is left of the bolts.

Is this possible and if so what is the technique to do it?

Thanks for any help anyone can give.[/quote]

John, I have successfully torched broken fasteners out of threaded holes as small as 5/16". It is almost a requirement that they be a through hole in the case of small bolts. For a 3/8, first drill a hole through the center about 1/8" dia. Then play the preheating flame down the hole. If you can get the bolt red hot, let it cool down and try to turn it with an easy out because it may have shrunk and got looser. If repeated heating does not work then proceed to blow the bolt out just to the edge of the minor diameter. What you want to avoid is stopping before the cut gets all the way through because it is easy for slag to cool and plug the hole. Clean up using small center punches, scribes & bottom tap to remove bolt fragments. You could practice on some scrap metal ( or as I call it "merchandise")
Thank you STEPHEN.

The hole in the middle is a significant point I think. I am going to get a good small cutting tip as I can find and give this a try.

Maybe won't be this Fall yet as my back won't allow me to contort about to get this done. Hopefully next year.
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Mon, Aug 10, 2015 9:10 PM
AJ.
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Reply to cojhl2:
Thank you STEPHEN.

The hole in the middle is a significant point I think. I am going to get a good small cutting tip as I can find and give this a try.

Maybe won't be this Fall yet as my back won't allow me to contort about to get this done. Hopefully next year.
It would be my choice to heat what the bolts screw into rather than heat the bolt.the bolts have already broken,the will twist off flush if you heat and soften them,heat around what they screw into and it will expand,the bolts should screw out using a vise grips on tight [go back and forth a few times] if you don't have welding gear.
AJ
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Mon, Aug 10, 2015 9:35 PM
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