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Canadian Airforce Generator....

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gauntjoh
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Here in UK, I have recently seen a WW2 Canadian Airforce generator based on an Industrial D4 engine. The unit has electric start for the pony, and a large direct drive generator, packaged in a totally enclosed skid unit.
I'm wondering if anyone would know anything about these units and specifically the generator i.e. voltage, 3 or single phase, 50 or 60 Hz, likely output...

The engine has a very fine adjustment on the throttle, which is mounted next to the injector pumps, presumably to finely adjust the generator output, and a govenor arrangement which is very different to any D4 tractor I've seen. The fuel tank is a purpose made flat tank mounted underneath the sump of the engine. It also has a pulley mounted on one of the pony cylinder heads (left hand one looking towards the radiator) so that the rope pull for the poney can be taken forwards. The pulley and bracket has a Cat part number, so I'm guessing the whole unit was made by Cat ?

Sorry I don't have any photographs, but will try and get some.....

Any information gratefully received.
Thanks.
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Fri, Nov 30, 2007 1:44 AM
ccjersey
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There's almost no telling what voltages might be possible with an old military set. I have heard of everything from 120 delta 3 phase to 230/400 wye 3 phase in that age sets.

Most equipment made for the military will have schematics or other information on placards inside the enclosure. Maybe there's a TM number listed so you could find one.

If all else fails, look at the generator output leads as they leave the generator casing and see how many there are.

If 3 or 4 leads,
3 phase, you have a single voltage set (voltage is ???? look on a tag somewhere)
single phase, you could have 120/240, 120 only or 240 only, just depends on the stator design and how you connect the leads together.

If 9 or 10 leads (always 3 phase, not reconnectable to single phase), you have a reconnectable "wye" set, usually capable of 120/208 and 277/480 depending on how the leads are connected

If 12 leads, it is usually possible to reconnect for all the above voltages both single phase and 3 phase. You would want to follow a schematic if you can find one.

The governor on a generator will have less "droop" than a standard industrial engine so it maintains the set speed and Hz of the AC electric output closely as the load changes. You should see a Hz or cycles per second meter on the panel, usually with several bars that will vibrate as the AC frequency matches the frequency that each bar is tuned for. The meter will sometimes vibrate even when there's no AC electrical output so make sure there's an AC signal to follow before you do much adjusting on the speed unless you have a good tach you can use on the engine. Most sets will turn either 1200 rpm or 1800 rpm for 60 hz and either 1000 or 1500 for 50 hz.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Fri, Nov 30, 2007 2:36 AM
SJ
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Reply to ccjersey:
There's almost no telling what voltages might be possible with an old military set. I have heard of everything from 120 delta 3 phase to 230/400 wye 3 phase in that age sets.

Most equipment made for the military will have schematics or other information on placards inside the enclosure. Maybe there's a TM number listed so you could find one.

If all else fails, look at the generator output leads as they leave the generator casing and see how many there are.

If 3 or 4 leads,
3 phase, you have a single voltage set (voltage is ???? look on a tag somewhere)
single phase, you could have 120/240, 120 only or 240 only, just depends on the stator design and how you connect the leads together.

If 9 or 10 leads (always 3 phase, not reconnectable to single phase), you have a reconnectable "wye" set, usually capable of 120/208 and 277/480 depending on how the leads are connected

If 12 leads, it is usually possible to reconnect for all the above voltages both single phase and 3 phase. You would want to follow a schematic if you can find one.

The governor on a generator will have less "droop" than a standard industrial engine so it maintains the set speed and Hz of the AC electric output closely as the load changes. You should see a Hz or cycles per second meter on the panel, usually with several bars that will vibrate as the AC frequency matches the frequency that each bar is tuned for. The meter will sometimes vibrate even when there's no AC electrical output so make sure there's an AC signal to follow before you do much adjusting on the speed unless you have a good tach you can use on the engine. Most sets will turn either 1200 rpm or 1800 rpm for 60 hz and either 1000 or 1500 for 50 hz.
CC, most all the generators had a 3% droop gov. setup where tractors & industrial engnes were a 10% droop gov. Cat also had some O% droop for special applications & we had some in two high school tech.schools here a few years ago & was called a total energy system as they used exhaust & cooling heat to help heat the big high schools. They said they needed the 0% droop to operate their computers & electronics correctly & they had an electronic gov. on them to sense the least droop to keep it at O.
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Fri, Nov 30, 2007 2:58 AM
ag-mike
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Reply to SJ:
CC, most all the generators had a 3% droop gov. setup where tractors & industrial engnes were a 10% droop gov. Cat also had some O% droop for special applications & we had some in two high school tech.schools here a few years ago & was called a total energy system as they used exhaust & cooling heat to help heat the big high schools. They said they needed the 0% droop to operate their computers & electronics correctly & they had an electronic gov. on them to sense the least droop to keep it at O.
John, did you find anymore info about the genset u mention in this very, very old post? Here's my Cat/Canadian genny i been working on. Here's my posting on it. http://www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?31118-Cat-D311-gen-set-1952-Canadian-Military-NATO-Cold-War-machine&highlight=

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/VLSdS8T1/DSC02277.jpg[/img]
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Sun, Jan 26, 2020 9:44 AM
gauntjoh
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Reply to ag-mike:
John, did you find anymore info about the genset u mention in this very, very old post? Here's my Cat/Canadian genny i been working on. Here's my posting on it. http://www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?31118-Cat-D311-gen-set-1952-Canadian-Military-NATO-Cold-War-machine&highlight=

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/VLSdS8T1/DSC02277.jpg[/img]
Hi Mike,
I didn't find any more information, and as this genset was something I was vaguely interested in (I prefer something I can drive !), I decided not to buy it. I probably would have done if I could have used it, i.e. 240v single phase or 440v 3 phase.
I had forgotten all about it !
Best Regards, John
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Sun, Jan 26, 2020 10:18 AM
drujinin
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Reply to SJ:
CC, most all the generators had a 3% droop gov. setup where tractors & industrial engnes were a 10% droop gov. Cat also had some O% droop for special applications & we had some in two high school tech.schools here a few years ago & was called a total energy system as they used exhaust & cooling heat to help heat the big high schools. They said they needed the 0% droop to operate their computers & electronics correctly & they had an electronic gov. on them to sense the least droop to keep it at O.


All the CAT Gensets I have started over the years were not configured for Droop. If it is a multiple paralleled island setup, then Yes they are set up for Droop. The standby's that are started and paralleled prior to the outage, then take over the load, do not Droop.
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Tue, Jan 28, 2020 9:22 AM
Oil Slick
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Reply to drujinin:


All the CAT Gensets I have started over the years were not configured for Droop. If it is a multiple paralleled island setup, then Yes they are set up for Droop. The standby's that are started and paralleled prior to the outage, then take over the load, do not Droop.
Been a while since I put the transformer on my D4 generator to bring the voltage from 480 to 240 using only 2 of the 3 legs. I also built a panel with 2 of every kind of plug that might be used with a volt gauge. Also added direct start but rope start pony still works. Works like a charm. It’s running my water 240 water well, RV AC unit and battery charger this last summer.

I’ve considered selling it if your interested.
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Wed, Jan 29, 2020 11:22 PM
ag-mike
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Reply to Oil Slick:
Been a while since I put the transformer on my D4 generator to bring the voltage from 480 to 240 using only 2 of the 3 legs. I also built a panel with 2 of every kind of plug that might be used with a volt gauge. Also added direct start but rope start pony still works. Works like a charm. It’s running my water 240 water well, RV AC unit and battery charger this last summer.

I’ve considered selling it if your interested.
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Nice 1, how old is it?
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Thu, Jan 30, 2020 10:36 AM
Oil Slick
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Reply to ag-mike:
Nice 1, how old is it?
Mikee, the generator is out back so I can’t see the serial number but I think it’s a late 40’s.

It’s surprisingly quiet. Probably because I have no way to lug it down. Yours must be real quiet with it being enclosed.
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Thu, Jan 30, 2020 11:18 AM
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