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RD4 Injection Pump problem

RD4 Injection Pump problem

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R4pat
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Today I messed around with the RD4 again, yesterday i narrowed it down to two cylinders slightly missing, and smoking, today i swapped the injection pumps around, and the problem followed the pumps, so i know the lifter setting should be correct. does anybody know about the pumps,
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Thu, Nov 15, 2007 9:16 AM
Old Magnet
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Not much you can do to check pumps without having the test apparatus where there is a set number of strokes to deliver a specific quantity of fuel at a given rack setting.
The 4-1/4 bore engine uses 8mm pumps.
You can check the overall plunger length for wear. New is 2.6575 - 2.6577 in. and they are considered worn out at .005 in. wear.
(I need that length verified for both the tall and short pumps as the manual is not real specific. I know it is right for the short pumps)

Usual process is go to the spare parts barrel and start swapping out units until ya get some that work😉 😉
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Thu, Nov 15, 2007 10:35 AM
R4pat
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Not much you can do to check pumps without having the test apparatus where there is a set number of strokes to deliver a specific quantity of fuel at a given rack setting.
The 4-1/4 bore engine uses 8mm pumps.
You can check the overall plunger length for wear. New is 2.6575 - 2.6577 in. and they are considered worn out at .005 in. wear.
(I need that length verified for both the tall and short pumps as the manual is not real specific. I know it is right for the short pumps)

Usual process is go to the spare parts barrel and start swapping out units until ya get some that work😉 😉
Well, I wonder where I can find 2 pumps, I don't know if anybody else knows, but RD4 pumps are a little different than the D4 7j, the later pumps have an extra little notch on the pump piston, I don't know if they will in interchange, also i do know that the piston should stay with each pump, and not interchanged,
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Thu, Nov 15, 2007 11:14 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to R4pat:
Well, I wonder where I can find 2 pumps, I don't know if anybody else knows, but RD4 pumps are a little different than the D4 7j, the later pumps have an extra little notch on the pump piston, I don't know if they will in interchange, also i do know that the piston should stay with each pump, and not interchanged,
There should be a number stamped on the side of the pumps. I only show two pumps in my info that goes back that far. A 2A3895 that is shown on the 7J1 and a 9B1411 that I can't identify.
Based on the info I see in the rack setting manual I'm pretty sure you could change to the later pumps but I'd do it as a matched set. Need someone with a 4G parts manual to verify the numbers. (edb where are you???)
Correct, pumps and barrels are matched sets and should not be interchanged.
(Wouldn't stop me from trying if I was stuck out in the back woods with no other means to get out😉 )
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Fri, Nov 16, 2007 8:00 AM
KidNV
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Reply to Old Magnet:
There should be a number stamped on the side of the pumps. I only show two pumps in my info that goes back that far. A 2A3895 that is shown on the 7J1 and a 9B1411 that I can't identify.
Based on the info I see in the rack setting manual I'm pretty sure you could change to the later pumps but I'd do it as a matched set. Need someone with a 4G parts manual to verify the numbers. (edb where are you???)
Correct, pumps and barrels are matched sets and should not be interchanged.
(Wouldn't stop me from trying if I was stuck out in the back woods with no other means to get out😉 )
Pat, assy is 2A3985 for all housings 7P1-7P13755 on the 4400
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Sat, Nov 17, 2007 2:10 PM
SJ
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Reply to KidNV:
Pat, assy is 2A3985 for all housings 7P1-7P13755 on the 4400
The visible area on pump plungers to check for wear is at the top of the plunger where that curved groove is & from the groove up to the tip they will have up & down wear there in that area that is very visible when you pull the plunger out of the barrel.A little wear at the bottom you can always set the lifters a couple thousands higher to make it up but the main wear is the scuffing at the top of the plunger.It is best to have them checked out at a fuel inj. shop that has the equip. to do it.
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Sat, Nov 17, 2007 7:19 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to SJ:
The visible area on pump plungers to check for wear is at the top of the plunger where that curved groove is & from the groove up to the tip they will have up & down wear there in that area that is very visible when you pull the plunger out of the barrel.A little wear at the bottom you can always set the lifters a couple thousands higher to make it up but the main wear is the scuffing at the top of the plunger.It is best to have them checked out at a fuel inj. shop that has the equip. to do it.
Along with the plunger and bore wear there is a check valve at the top that eventually wears out. There are no service parts available (never was that I know of) for these pumps so if they can't make test it is replacement time.
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Sat, Nov 17, 2007 11:16 PM
R4pat
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Along with the plunger and bore wear there is a check valve at the top that eventually wears out. There are no service parts available (never was that I know of) for these pumps so if they can't make test it is replacement time.
SJ, I was wondering if you would have any connections to a shop that would have any test equipment, nobody around the North Texas area that can check them.

Thanks Pat
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Sun, Nov 18, 2007 7:08 AM
SJ
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Reply to R4pat:
SJ, I was wondering if you would have any connections to a shop that would have any test equipment, nobody around the North Texas area that can check them.

Thanks Pat
The dealer I worked for has a fuel testing shop but is in Harrisburg Pa. so is pretty far from you unless your not in a hurry & you could ship them to their shop to check & then return them.If you are interested you can call 888-232-5948 & ask for the fuel injector & pump repair shop in Harrisburg or other shops of there,s that do it as they have shops in western Pa. too now.For the 36 years I worked for them the fuel inj. shop was in Harrisburg so I have sent 100s of them down there over the years from the Wilkes Barre Pa. branch & always worked like new when they came back.All of their branches sent them to that one central center for testing.
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Sun, Nov 18, 2007 7:25 AM
R4pat
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Reply to SJ:
The dealer I worked for has a fuel testing shop but is in Harrisburg Pa. so is pretty far from you unless your not in a hurry & you could ship them to their shop to check & then return them.If you are interested you can call 888-232-5948 & ask for the fuel injector & pump repair shop in Harrisburg or other shops of there,s that do it as they have shops in western Pa. too now.For the 36 years I worked for them the fuel inj. shop was in Harrisburg so I have sent 100s of them down there over the years from the Wilkes Barre Pa. branch & always worked like new when they came back.All of their branches sent them to that one central center for testing.
Thanks SJ

I'm not in a real hurry, I will probably sent them up there if I don't find any other alternatives

Pat
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Sun, Nov 18, 2007 9:26 AM
edb
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Reply to R4pat:
Thanks SJ

I'm not in a real hurry, I will probably sent them up there if I don't find any other alternatives

Pat
Hi team,
just back on deck after touring our mighty Snowy Mountains Hydro/electric Scheme, and Ski Fields in the surrounding areas--- it is summer here and the snow is all but completely gone, just a few patches left in sheltered areas.
We stayed at Jindabyne on the side of one of the schemes lakes, we encountered a week of 30-33degC temps.--a heat wave for the locals--average summer max temps are in the 20-23degC range--global warming ??? we drove home in temps of 40-42degC temps through Gippsland yesterday!!!!!

The "Vee" grouve cut outs on the side of the pump plunger working area is to give a steadier (non hunting) low idle. These pumps cannot be mixed with others without the Vee as it requires a greater position of the rack to give an idle volume of fuel. Leakage of injection fuel occurs across the Vee and affords a larger movement of the rack to change the volume of fuel injected and this in turn steadies out the Low Idle hunting.
IF the two types of pumps are mixed the Vee grouved units will tend to display a miss at low idle due to the lower volume of fuel delivered per unit of rack setting as compared to a non Vee grouved plungered pump.
This subject was covered recently either here or on the ACME BB.
The pump plunger and barrels are selective fitted at the factory for best fit, so it is possible to mix and match parts if they are in the tolerance range of each of the plungers and barells. In a production run there will always be a plus and minus variation of the target dimension for the particular component and these parts are often identified in say car pistons and bores as A or B,C,D etc size for mixing and matching for best fit IE they can use std oversized pistons to best match an oversized bored cylinder---here we are talking in the upto plus or minus one thou range not 10 or 20 thou. Although during WW2 I believe many makers used std over/under size components in their engines so as to cut wastage.

OM, sorry do not have 7J P/B, have D6 4R1-up P/B and it also shows the 2A3895 Pump Ass only (form 8885 / March 1945) as does my TM5-3100 War Dept D6 maint&parts catalogue for D6--4R680-up and 5R903-up. Also 9K grader.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Tue, Nov 20, 2007 1:47 PM
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