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pony conecting rod question ?

pony conecting rod question ?

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Jw74
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Hi every one, I am second guessing my installation of my pistons/connecting rods on my D2 starter motor. I know I aligned the caps correctly to the rods but after thumbing through the book I saw where it says that if the rods are installed correctly you will see the numbers stamped in the rods towards the top of the cylinder block. Well I can not see any numbers. The only thing I remember seeing when I had them out was 4 dots stamped on one and I think 3 on the other one. Which did not make any sense to me and besides it did not look like it was factory markings. And also if the part numbers are the same why is the book telling me to keep them in the same cylinder they came out of. if any one can shed some light on the subject I would be thankful !!

Questions...

Do I need take it back apart and rotate the pistons 180 degrees so I can see the dots that are stamped in the rods?

How critical is it to put the pistons back in there same cylinder ?
Thanks God Bless
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Sat, Jul 19, 2014 12:29 PM
drujinin
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Pistons in the same cylinder is not critical because you honed the cylinder and installed new rings.
This means the piston/cylinder marriage was broken, now on breakin they will remarry.
Rods? That is a gray area... Rods with new bearings installed, mixing and matching caps numbers may not be so critical but orientation could vary well be an issue as in some rod designs the beef of the material may require a specific orientation.
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Sat, Jul 19, 2014 7:37 PM
neil
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Reply to drujinin:
Pistons in the same cylinder is not critical because you honed the cylinder and installed new rings.
This means the piston/cylinder marriage was broken, now on breakin they will remarry.
Rods? That is a gray area... Rods with new bearings installed, mixing and matching caps numbers may not be so critical but orientation could vary well be an issue as in some rod designs the beef of the material may require a specific orientation.
Jessie, my opinion is that those considerations are less important than making sure that the bearing clearances are within spec, the rod and rod cap are matched, and that the rods haven't previously been stressed. All the other stuff that goes with it is important too: clean, undiluted oil, good crank bearing clearances and all bearings firmly in place in their housings. Those ponies have a habit of the main bearings working loose and then you get lots of end play that can result in broken mag gears and possibly broken rods
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Sat, Jul 19, 2014 8:10 PM
Jw74
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Reply to neil:
Jessie, my opinion is that those considerations are less important than making sure that the bearing clearances are within spec, the rod and rod cap are matched, and that the rods haven't previously been stressed. All the other stuff that goes with it is important too: clean, undiluted oil, good crank bearing clearances and all bearings firmly in place in their housings. Those ponies have a habit of the main bearings working loose and then you get lots of end play that can result in broken mag gears and possibly broken rods
so just to play it safe im guessing I should pull them back out rotate them 180 and not take any chances...Why couldn't I have accidently put them in the right way , it never seems to work out that way ...thanks for the impute
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Sat, Jul 19, 2014 9:33 PM
jmvmopar
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Reply to Jw74:
so just to play it safe im guessing I should pull them back out rotate them 180 and not take any chances...Why couldn't I have accidently put them in the right way , it never seems to work out that way ...thanks for the impute
Never mix and match rods and caps. They are a machined pair.
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Sat, Jul 19, 2014 9:57 PM
ccjersey
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Although the bearings should be locked in the connecting rod by the "crush" of a properly sized big end, the locking tabs should be oriented the right way so the edge of the little tab on the bearing insert half bears against the flat surface of the opposing connecting rod or cap, positively stopping any tendency of the insert to rotate in the rod. I have heard that the tabs are more for locating the insert axially in the big end of the connecting rod than to prevent rotation.

The larger pony motor on the D318 shows 4 oil holes on the rod which I believe could be oriented either way and still provide normal lubrication.

So, even though I suspect the engine will run just fine with the rods installed upside down, I think it would be better to turn them over.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Sun, Jul 20, 2014 12:59 AM
drujinin
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Reply to ccjersey:
Although the bearings should be locked in the connecting rod by the "crush" of a properly sized big end, the locking tabs should be oriented the right way so the edge of the little tab on the bearing insert half bears against the flat surface of the opposing connecting rod or cap, positively stopping any tendency of the insert to rotate in the rod. I have heard that the tabs are more for locating the insert axially in the big end of the connecting rod than to prevent rotation.

The larger pony motor on the D318 shows 4 oil holes on the rod which I believe could be oriented either way and still provide normal lubrication.

So, even though I suspect the engine will run just fine with the rods installed upside down, I think it would be better to turn them over.
That would be a true statement when it was New!
OR had easily obtainable new parts at realistic prices.......
By the time you get that Antique, chances are you will be surprised what some farmer/shade tree mechanic has inside of there!
I remember taking a perfectly running babbitt bearing engine apart and finding all kinds of combinations on the rod bearings. Every journal was perfect condition!
Read lots of the OLD books for various farm tractors and you will see that in SOME CASES, IT IS ACCEPTABLE to put back in what you found!
If matched pair rods for a D2 pony are not obtainable brand new, then put back in what you found, how you found.
Thats all I'm saying!
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Sun, Jul 20, 2014 7:17 PM
Jim Davis
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Reply to drujinin:
That would be a true statement when it was New!
OR had easily obtainable new parts at realistic prices.......
By the time you get that Antique, chances are you will be surprised what some farmer/shade tree mechanic has inside of there!
I remember taking a perfectly running babbitt bearing engine apart and finding all kinds of combinations on the rod bearings. Every journal was perfect condition!
Read lots of the OLD books for various farm tractors and you will see that in SOME CASES, IT IS ACCEPTABLE to put back in what you found!
If matched pair rods for a D2 pony are not obtainable brand new, then put back in what you found, how you found.
Thats all I'm saying!
If there were 3 dots on one rod AND cap and 4 dots on the other rod AND cap, the 3s should stay with the 3s, with the dots both top or both bottom.

Generally best to leave things as they were--I've come across an Allis Chalmers engine that had the rods offset fore and aft on the crankshaft. Didn't want to go together with one rod rotated from the original position.
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Sun, Jul 20, 2014 7:43 PM
Jw74
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Reply to Jim Davis:
If there were 3 dots on one rod AND cap and 4 dots on the other rod AND cap, the 3s should stay with the 3s, with the dots both top or both bottom.

Generally best to leave things as they were--I've come across an Allis Chalmers engine that had the rods offset fore and aft on the crankshaft. Didn't want to go together with one rod rotated from the original position.
I went ahead and pulled them out. I never did mix up the caps and rods', they have always stayed as a pare. The only markings that were on there where a couple dots on a rod and a couple on the corresponding cap and 3 dots on the crank lobe . I put that rod and cap next to the three dot location since there were no other markings. The other rod and crank lobe hos no markings so I turned them so the rod and cap alignment marks are facing up. I torqued them to 14 ft lbs and put in new cotter pins. In the photo you can see the three dots on the crank lobe and the two on the rod, I'm not sure why the rod does not have three as well but the other one does not have any. More importantly the alignment marks for the rods and caps are now facing up and before I had them facing down. Now I feel better thanks for the impute. I'm not sure what to torque the crank gear bolts to and also cam gear nut, timing cover bolts, manifold nuts and the cover that holds the front main bearing. I am at a stand still without those torque specs if any one can tell me that would be great thanks!
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Thanks God Bless
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Mon, Jul 21, 2014 1:08 AM
ccjersey
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I think you're on your own as far as "official" torque specs on the ponies, but here is a generic fastener torque chart for guidance.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Mon, Jul 21, 2014 3:58 AM
Jw74
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Reply to ccjersey:
I think you're on your own as far as "official" torque specs on the ponies, but here is a generic fastener torque chart for guidance.
Thanks CC that is very helpful it gives me something to shoot for.
Thanks God Bless
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Mon, Jul 21, 2014 11:50 AM
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