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Grader overheat problems

Grader overheat problems

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HUNTER
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CAT 14 C69..... I have an run hot/overheat problem that I have been trying to solve for about 3 months now. The motor runs right on temp for about 2 hours under heavy/ light loads. Right about when hour 3 starts is where the fun begins. The temp gage will move from normal to red line/hot in about 10 minutes or so. Then no matter if I idle for up to 30 minutes or sit at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle, it will not cool down. I have replaced parts and cleaned the whole cooling system trying to find the problem( see parts below). The only way to cool down is to shut down for 1-2 hours and start the whole process again. One thing I did notice today was the the air bleed valve on the forward part of the head is blowing air /steam when this happens, but water will flow out of it shortly there after.I have been flushing the water out after every run and re filling and bleeding the system, but I am stumped.

water pump..rebuilt
thermostats.. replaced
radiator.. boiled out and flushed
pressure relief valve.. clean and functioning( could not get a new one, no longer available)
temp gage..replaced
hoses..replaced
no leaks
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Wed, Feb 26, 2014 9:54 AM
caterpillarkid
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Check the oil cooler
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Wed, Feb 26, 2014 9:59 AM
Bruce P
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Reply to caterpillarkid:
Check the oil cooler
I'm not sure what engine is in your 14, but I had a costomer's 12F here last month that had very similar symptom's. It ended up having a cracked head. The temp gauge suddenly jumping to the red tells me there is steam around the bulb. With a cold engine take the radiator cap off, then start and run until it warms up. You may have to partly block off the radiator screen to get it up to temp. Watch for bubbles coming to the surface. The bubbles indicate air being put into the water jacket from somewhere, likely the head or head gasket.

Good luck

Bruce P
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Wed, Feb 26, 2014 10:52 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to Bruce P:
I'm not sure what engine is in your 14, but I had a costomer's 12F here last month that had very similar symptom's. It ended up having a cracked head. The temp gauge suddenly jumping to the red tells me there is steam around the bulb. With a cold engine take the radiator cap off, then start and run until it warms up. You may have to partly block off the radiator screen to get it up to temp. Watch for bubbles coming to the surface. The bubbles indicate air being put into the water jacket from somewhere, likely the head or head gasket.

Good luck

Bruce P
Along with air displacing the coolant you should be seeing some loss of coolant. Candidate compression leak sources are bad head gasket, cracked head or block, pinholes in pre-combustion chambers and/or liners and bad bottom seating/sealing of the pre-combustion chamber/s.
Can be a bit of a challenge to sort out the sources/s.
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Wed, Feb 26, 2014 11:06 PM
ccjersey
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It's worthwhile to do some diagnostics on the engine before you decide to take off the head etc.

Pressurizing the cylinders is perhaps the best way to detect leaks because you can get higher pressure on the leak. Use shop air at 150-175 psi plumbed into an adapter to the injector port and turn the engine to TDC for each cylinder in turn and lock it by putting machine in gear if manual transmission equipped and lock the brakes or lower blade etc so it cannot take off. Engine can turn suddenly when air pressure is applied. Throttle must be at fuel off position or all injectors removed so engine positively cannot start. Watch for air bubbles in the radiator or out your bleed valve may show up quicker.

With a grader, you cannot simply drop the pan, so after you localize it to one cylinder, if precombustion chamber equipped, I would start by removing that one and inspect and perhaps reseal it and try again. If that doesn't do it, then you're down to removing the head, but you know where to look for blown gasket, low liner or cracks. You may notice that one cylinder has almost no carbon and may show rust pits if machine sits unused for long periods.

Good luck............that one doesn't sound easy to find.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Wed, Feb 26, 2014 11:19 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to ccjersey:
It's worthwhile to do some diagnostics on the engine before you decide to take off the head etc.

Pressurizing the cylinders is perhaps the best way to detect leaks because you can get higher pressure on the leak. Use shop air at 150-175 psi plumbed into an adapter to the injector port and turn the engine to TDC for each cylinder in turn and lock it by putting machine in gear if manual transmission equipped and lock the brakes or lower blade etc so it cannot take off. Engine can turn suddenly when air pressure is applied. Throttle must be at fuel off position or all injectors removed so engine positively cannot start. Watch for air bubbles in the radiator or out your bleed valve may show up quicker.

With a grader, you cannot simply drop the pan, so after you localize it to one cylinder, if precombustion chamber equipped, I would start by removing that one and inspect and perhaps reseal it and try again. If that doesn't do it, then you're down to removing the head, but you know where to look for blown gasket, low liner or cracks. You may notice that one cylinder has almost no carbon and may show rust pits if machine sits unused for long periods.

Good luck............that one doesn't sound easy to find.
Could not find a s/n model #14 C69 listing. Any more info??
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Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:32 AM
HUNTER
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Could not find a s/n model #14 C69 listing. Any more info??
serial # 64C89
I was afraid it my be head related issues. I will try out the diagnoses tips in the next 2 weeks and see where it leads to. Thanks for all the tips guys.
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Fri, Feb 28, 2014 9:09 AM
catskinner
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Reply to HUNTER:
serial # 64C89
I was afraid it my be head related issues. I will try out the diagnoses tips in the next 2 weeks and see where it leads to. Thanks for all the tips guys.
Your #14c grader is a 1959 year. catskinner
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Sun, Mar 16, 2014 9:46 AM
HUNTER
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Reply to catskinner:
Your #14c grader is a 1959 year. catskinner
I have done a lot of work on this machine since last time I was here on the website, and I am back to square one. I removed the head and found 4 cracks that were repaired by a reputable machine shop using a plug and stitch weld process. After replacing all the goodies associated with replacing the head, and getting everything back together, it fired right up and runs well. It will idle at part or anything up to full throttle all day long and the temp stays in the middle of the green range.Once I put it in gear and start moving around (blade up). it rapidly runs to the red zone and stays there,spitting steam from the bleed valve on the head and the overflow.This thing has all new parts,gaskets, and a through cleaning of the cooling system,and everything else related to the head.I am going to try the air pressure test listed above , but after that , I am completely stumped!Any help would be appreciated.
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Sun, Dec 28, 2014 10:18 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to HUNTER:
I have done a lot of work on this machine since last time I was here on the website, and I am back to square one. I removed the head and found 4 cracks that were repaired by a reputable machine shop using a plug and stitch weld process. After replacing all the goodies associated with replacing the head, and getting everything back together, it fired right up and runs well. It will idle at part or anything up to full throttle all day long and the temp stays in the middle of the green range.Once I put it in gear and start moving around (blade up). it rapidly runs to the red zone and stays there,spitting steam from the bleed valve on the head and the overflow.This thing has all new parts,gaskets, and a through cleaning of the cooling system,and everything else related to the head.I am going to try the air pressure test listed above , but after that , I am completely stumped!Any help would be appreciated.
What parts were replaced? Head/block cracks, gaskets were only part of the list. Pin holed combustion chambers and or liners still need to be checked. Any sign of water in the oil?
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Sun, Dec 28, 2014 1:30 PM
rjh-md
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Reply to Old Magnet:
What parts were replaced? Head/block cracks, gaskets were only part of the list. Pin holed combustion chambers and or liners still need to be checked. Any sign of water in the oil?
The cracked head may be the result of another problem .If you still have the old head gasket ,inspect it carefully around where it seals to the liner flanges for indications of compression gases escaping the sealing ring on the liner flange ,and blowing into a near by water jacket hole or most likely gases are pushing passed the liner and pass the counter bore into the cooling system. Your probably going to have to pull the head and check the liner projection for a problem of a droped liner in the block caused by a counter bore problem ,most likely a crack in the counterbore in the block. I am not sure what engine you have there ,but I have seen this problem often in Cat wet liner engines .
There is still the possibility of a pin hole in the liner abouve the compression rings due to liner erosion from the cooling side of the liner .
Your probably going to end up pulling the liners and closely inspecting the counterbores and liners for that problem
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Sun, Dec 28, 2014 11:20 PM
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