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Cat Ten Piston Replacement

Cat Ten Piston Replacement

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Cysco
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This is a continuation of a previous conversation here about the possibility of a Farmall H piston working in a Cat Ten. Someone here told me Al Smith said they would work.

Ok....I got a new Farmall H piston for a 152 ci engine. It doesn't look anything like the original but then pistons in tractors I am sure are like car pistons and change with the times......or at least I am hoping. As best I can tell the new H piston will be about .060 above the height of the old piston when installed. The bore on the block is a good bit larger than the piston so I am looking at stepping up to a larger piston. The piston pin is a bit larger which honing will fix. Overall height is close to same.

What are the opinions on using this piston or did I get the wrong model of H piston ?

Thanks .....Bill
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Thu, Feb 14, 2013 7:30 AM
edb
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Hi Cysco,
am sure the Vert. pony engines are half of the 10, 15, & 20 engines---depending on bore size for the various Diesel Engine configurations needing more powerful stater engines.

Scanned are the specs for both the Horiz. and the Vert. pony pistons that are available still from non Cat sources.
The pistons now only come semi-finished so you can machine them to suit your needs.
Hope someone else chimes in with supplier details or they may be in the Parts Sticky.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Thu, Feb 14, 2013 8:45 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to edb:
Hi Cysco,
am sure the Vert. pony engines are half of the 10, 15, & 20 engines---depending on bore size for the various Diesel Engine configurations needing more powerful stater engines.

Scanned are the specs for both the Horiz. and the Vert. pony pistons that are available still from non Cat sources.
The pistons now only come semi-finished so you can machine them to suit your needs.
Hope someone else chimes in with supplier details or they may be in the Parts Sticky.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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I don't have much to add other than the "10" used the same 3-3/8" bore pistons that were used on the Diesel 45 & 40 starting engines.
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Thu, Feb 14, 2013 8:54 AM
side-seat
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Reply to Old Magnet:
I don't have much to add other than the "10" used the same 3-3/8" bore pistons that were used on the Diesel 45 & 40 starting engines.
I have fitted pistons in engines that had a higher compression height by facing the top of the piston to match the block height.
If you do the math maybe let them out some to increase the compression ratio.
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Thu, Feb 14, 2013 9:16 AM
Cysco
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Reply to side-seat:
I have fitted pistons in engines that had a higher compression height by facing the top of the piston to match the block height.
If you do the math maybe let them out some to increase the compression ratio.
Thanks for the responses guys..............Lots of good info.

Edb..the chart shows exactly the size of the piston in the block now. The cylinder walls are in pretty good shape so maybe hitting them with a glaze buster...............

Sideseat..........I like the way you are thinking.....a little more compression.....lighter piston will equal less rotating mass = more HP

This reminds me of the "good ole days" .....how much HP do ya want....😊

Now how do I slip the cost by the ever watchful eyes of the better half... *L*

OM.....you are right there also!

Thanks again guys.......Bill
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Thu, Feb 14, 2013 5:43 PM
Pat in WI
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Reply to Cysco:
Thanks for the responses guys..............Lots of good info.

Edb..the chart shows exactly the size of the piston in the block now. The cylinder walls are in pretty good shape so maybe hitting them with a glaze buster...............

Sideseat..........I like the way you are thinking.....a little more compression.....lighter piston will equal less rotating mass = more HP

This reminds me of the "good ole days" .....how much HP do ya want....😊

Now how do I slip the cost by the ever watchful eyes of the better half... *L*

OM.....you are right there also!

Thanks again guys.......Bill
Bill,

I'm not inclined to agree with "more HP is better" in this case.

Keep in mind that you have to hand crank this engine. Higher compression will not be your friend! Then I wonder too about changing the dynamics here with increased HP in a 80 year old engine. When you start increasing cylinder pressures, you add more stress to the head and rods and crankshaft...etc...and for what gain? When I rebuilt mine I went for things to increase longevity...not reduce.

If you are going to go with the Farmall H pistons...then I would go with Steve's recommendation about machining the piston height down.

Is there a reason you are not using the original pistons? Do you need original pistons?

Just my opinion...

Pat
Pat in WI
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Sun, Feb 17, 2013 7:07 PM
Cysco
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Reply to Pat in WI:
Bill,

I'm not inclined to agree with "more HP is better" in this case.

Keep in mind that you have to hand crank this engine. Higher compression will not be your friend! Then I wonder too about changing the dynamics here with increased HP in a 80 year old engine. When you start increasing cylinder pressures, you add more stress to the head and rods and crankshaft...etc...and for what gain? When I rebuilt mine I went for things to increase longevity...not reduce.

If you are going to go with the Farmall H pistons...then I would go with Steve's recommendation about machining the piston height down.

Is there a reason you are not using the original pistons? Do you need original pistons?

Just my opinion...

Pat
Hi Pat,
Good to see you here......I guess I was doing some wishful thinking and reverting back to the good ole days of when more horse power and torque was the name of the game for our Saturday night adventures ...... 😊

Now back to the reality of things..........you and SteveA are absolutly right and maintaining the integrity of the engine is more important than any gains either in HP or torque. The reality of this engine has finally come to light when I got it on the engine stand and found some surprising things. The pistons are at .090 over (Unfinished pistons milled to finish and hand stamped) and the lifter holding bolts are not looking good. I checked the rings individually....nothing like having to check ring end gap with a piece of 1/4" steel flat bar ! Piston pins are shot....top ring land is worn badly.Then I moved onto the block....after spending time scraping off some kind of crusty stuff it got down to where the mating surface of the head and block was welded and looks to be ground off with a disc grinder. Using a straight edge showed more issues. There is a broken head stud and another was drilled out and a larger bolt used. A lot of pitting was filled with something.
A saving grace would have to be the crankshaft. It appears to be tight on the mains but we shall see later.

So as of this morning I am going to disassemble the other block I have and see what is wrong with it. I know the pistons are .040 over and it turns freely. It has a couple cosmetic issues though nothing serious.

I do have the transmission, finals and roller track in good shape now.

This is a setback and some regrouping.......disappointed ....yes. But most definetly a learning experience.

Thanks for all the positive input guys.

I'll post more later......Bill
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Sun, Feb 17, 2013 8:31 PM
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