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CAT 22 engine rebuild

CAT 22 engine rebuild

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Here are some photos of the engine rebuild for my CAT22, 2F5209. The engine is just now starting to go back together. I'll post more photos as I make progress. Things I have done so far include: New piston rings; bore and install cylinder liners to bring bore back to spec; line bore the block; grind the crank; re-babbitted main and rod bearings; new gaskets and seals. The following photos are provided: 772- Pistons after cleaning; 773- Block upon return from re-babitting; 776- Block with crankshaft and camshaft installed; 786- Block with cylinder gaskets and head bolts installed; 792- cylinders installed; 793- piston, rings and rod assembled; 796- first piston goes into block; 799- Pistons and oil pump installed.

That's where she stands today. I have one question. I was advised not to do anything to the oil pump. While I have her apart, is there anything in particular that you might suggest I need to do to the oil pump, other than clean it? Ray
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2F5209 CAT 22, 1967 E-Type Jaguar OTS, Trek 2300 road bike
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Mon, Nov 5, 2012 10:18 PM
Old Magnet
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I'd check the clearances.....end plate to gears, gap between gear teeth and housing.....then you know where you are at.

I see you are reusing the pistons, were the ring lands checked for proper clearance (mainly compression)?
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Tue, Nov 6, 2012 12:16 AM
drujinin
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On those particular style of pistons is there a specail procedure for the piston pin retainers?
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Tue, Nov 6, 2012 12:18 AM
Dan Pratt
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By all means yes, take it apart! It will very likely need to have the gears and end plate(s) resurfaced. I sallowed for 0.002" clearance between gear length. I have done two of these and both needed refreshing. Also replace the spring for the pressure relief. After rebuilding, set it up for a pressure test for a final adjustmnt before installing. I set mine at 35psi cold.

Dan
Dan22 - 1936 22 Narrow, 1937 22 Wide, D2 5J, D4D
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Tue, Nov 6, 2012 12:21 AM
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Reply to Old Magnet:
I'd check the clearances.....end plate to gears, gap between gear teeth and housing.....then you know where you are at.

I see you are reusing the pistons, were the ring lands checked for proper clearance (mainly compression)?
[quote="Old Magnet"]I'd check the clearances.....end plate to gears, gap between gear teeth and housing.....then you know where you are at.

I see you are reusing the pistons, were the ring lands checked for proper clearance (mainly compression)?[/quote]

OM, I checked the piston diameters, all were within .003" of each other, with no taper. I did not see any wear in the ring grooves, and I checked ring end gap for the new rings at around .006-.008." There was significant taper in the old cylinders, and the ring end gap for the old rings was huge (~.130"). Thus the cylinder liners.
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2F5209 CAT 22, 1967 E-Type Jaguar OTS, Trek 2300 road bike
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Tue, Nov 6, 2012 12:51 AM
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Reply to Dan Pratt:
By all means yes, take it apart! It will very likely need to have the gears and end plate(s) resurfaced. I sallowed for 0.002" clearance between gear length. I have done two of these and both needed refreshing. Also replace the spring for the pressure relief. After rebuilding, set it up for a pressure test for a final adjustmnt before installing. I set mine at 35psi cold.

Dan
[quote="Dan Pratt"]By all means yes, take it apart! It will very likely need to have the gears and end plate(s) resurfaced. I sallowed for 0.002" clearance between gear length. I have done two of these and both needed refreshing. Also replace the spring for the pressure relief. After rebuilding, set it up for a pressure test for a final adjustmnt before installing. I set mine at 35psi cold.

Dan[/quote]

Dan,
have not done a pump before. Do you have any reference or guidance on how all this is done? P/N and source for spring? Ray
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2F5209 CAT 22, 1967 E-Type Jaguar OTS, Trek 2300 road bike
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Tue, Nov 6, 2012 1:00 AM
Mike Meyer
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[quote="Dan Pratt"]By all means yes, take it apart! It will very likely need to have the gears and end plate(s) resurfaced. I sallowed for 0.002" clearance between gear length. I have done two of these and both needed refreshing. Also replace the spring for the pressure relief. After rebuilding, set it up for a pressure test for a final adjustmnt before installing. I set mine at 35psi cold.

Dan[/quote]

Dan,
have not done a pump before. Do you have any reference or guidance on how all this is done? P/N and source for spring? Ray
[quote="[email protected]"]Dan,
have not done a pump before. Do you have any reference or guidance on how all this is done? P/N and source for spring? Ray[/quote]

Nice work on your motor Ray, how much do the new babbitt bearings cost in the USA to pour and machine? My 22 parts book says that oil pump spring is P/N OL1142, and I'd suggest you contact your Cat. Dealer first because it is weird what parts they sometimes have for the old girls.
regards
Mike
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Tue, Nov 6, 2012 2:43 AM
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Reply to Mike Meyer:
[quote="[email protected]"]Dan,
have not done a pump before. Do you have any reference or guidance on how all this is done? P/N and source for spring? Ray[/quote]

Nice work on your motor Ray, how much do the new babbitt bearings cost in the USA to pour and machine? My 22 parts book says that oil pump spring is P/N OL1142, and I'd suggest you contact your Cat. Dealer first because it is weird what parts they sometimes have for the old girls.
regards
Mike
[quote="Mike Meyer"]Nice work on your motor Ray, how much do the new babbitt bearings cost in the USA to pour and machine? My 22 parts book says that oil pump spring is P/N OL1142, and I'd suggest you contact your Cat. Dealer first because it is weird what parts they sometimes have for the old girls.
regards
Mike[/quote]

Mike,
I looked around at a couple options for doing the re-babbitting. One company in Syracuse, NY said I should only give them my bearing shells and drawings of what I wanted them to do and they would make the bearings to my drawings. If they didn't work it would be my problem since they built to my drawings. No way I would work with them. Then I called Ziggy at Babbitt Pot in Ft. Edward, NY. He said to bring him the block, rods, and shells. He would line bore the block, grind the crank, pour the babbitts for the mains and rod bearings, then assemble the crank into the block. Total cost was $1,700. I may have been able to find a lower cost shop, but I felt very comfortable with Ziggy. He came well recommended by other club members. Ray
***********************
2F5209 CAT 22, 1967 E-Type Jaguar OTS, Trek 2300 road bike
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Tue, Nov 6, 2012 3:57 AM
Old Magnet
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[quote="Mike Meyer"]Nice work on your motor Ray, how much do the new babbitt bearings cost in the USA to pour and machine? My 22 parts book says that oil pump spring is P/N OL1142, and I'd suggest you contact your Cat. Dealer first because it is weird what parts they sometimes have for the old girls.
regards
Mike[/quote]

Mike,
I looked around at a couple options for doing the re-babbitting. One company in Syracuse, NY said I should only give them my bearing shells and drawings of what I wanted them to do and they would make the bearings to my drawings. If they didn't work it would be my problem since they built to my drawings. No way I would work with them. Then I called Ziggy at Babbitt Pot in Ft. Edward, NY. He said to bring him the block, rods, and shells. He would line bore the block, grind the crank, pour the babbitts for the mains and rod bearings, then assemble the crank into the block. Total cost was $1,700. I may have been able to find a lower cost shop, but I felt very comfortable with Ziggy. He came well recommended by other club members. Ray
It's the ring to groove side clearance that I was mostly referring to, seems this is often overlooked.
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Tue, Nov 6, 2012 4:26 AM
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Reply to Old Magnet:
It's the ring to groove side clearance that I was mostly referring to, seems this is often overlooked.


OM, I measured it, but cannot remember exactly what it was. I think it averaged around .005"
Ray
***********************
2F5209 CAT 22, 1967 E-Type Jaguar OTS, Trek 2300 road bike
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Tue, Nov 6, 2012 5:19 AM
Mike Meyer
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[quote="Mike Meyer"]Nice work on your motor Ray, how much do the new babbitt bearings cost in the USA to pour and machine? My 22 parts book says that oil pump spring is P/N OL1142, and I'd suggest you contact your Cat. Dealer first because it is weird what parts they sometimes have for the old girls.
regards
Mike[/quote]

Mike,
I looked around at a couple options for doing the re-babbitting. One company in Syracuse, NY said I should only give them my bearing shells and drawings of what I wanted them to do and they would make the bearings to my drawings. If they didn't work it would be my problem since they built to my drawings. No way I would work with them. Then I called Ziggy at Babbitt Pot in Ft. Edward, NY. He said to bring him the block, rods, and shells. He would line bore the block, grind the crank, pour the babbitts for the mains and rod bearings, then assemble the crank into the block. Total cost was $1,700. I may have been able to find a lower cost shop, but I felt very comfortable with Ziggy. He came well recommended by other club members. Ray
[quote="[email protected]"]Mike,
I looked around at a couple options for doing the re-babbitting. One company in Syracuse, NY said I should only give them my bearing shells and drawings of what I wanted them to do and they would make the bearings to my drawings. If they didn't work it would be my problem since they built to my drawings. No way I would work with them. Then I called Ziggy at Babbitt Pot in Ft. Edward, NY. He said to bring him the block, rods, and shells. He would line bore the block, grind the crank, pour the babbitts for the mains and rod bearings, then assemble the crank into the block. Total cost was $1,700. I may have been able to find a lower cost shop, but I felt very comfortable with Ziggy. He came well recommended by other club members. Ray[/quote]

That is very reasonable I think, I paid $550 to have my 2 Ton crank machined, and another $800 to have the bearings poured and block line bored, but that was 2 years ago and I hunted high and low for a good tradesman who didn't charge like a Lawyer, and it took the old fella a year to get around to finishing the job, while a local "Expert" white metal bearing guy quoted me over $2,000 just to do the bearings!

I have a local guy setting himself up as a Machine Shop and has all the right machines and presses including 3 different lathes and just bought himself (or more accurately, his Dad just bought him😖mokin😊a new CNC lathe for over $100,000 I believe, yet twice in the past few months I've called in with some small jobs and each time he is pretty quiet work wise, but says, "oh Mike, I'm a bit worried I might break something on my lathe machining those front idlers you built up with weld, and I charge $75 a hour and if I break something I'll be charging you for those broken tool bits too".

Needless to say Ray I continue to take my business to a good old Fitter and Turner who has both the brains and ability to get the job done in a timely and cost effective manner, but I am looking out for a old metal lathe so I can start making simple things like new bronze bearings, or turn up worn rollers I've rebuilt, folks not much smarter than me tell me it isn't that hard to learn how to use a metal lathe if you go quietly and slowly, and I remember making a pretty nice 5 foot tall wood lamp for my Mom on a wood lathe at High School back in the 1970's as a 14 year old, so I figure it can't be tool much different!😆
regards
Mike
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Tue, Nov 6, 2012 7:32 AM
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